Export to Flash File?

[volker]

Hello,

Great program! Though most firewalls / mailers / anti-spam solitions

don't like .exe files to be sent electronically. Even when we trick

these (sometime zipping works, sometimes renaming the file to .doc

and asking the recipient to name it back later), still some people do

not feel well running .exe files. An export to a Macromedia flash file

format would be helpful. Many people - and even most companies - have

a flash player installed, especially since Web pages use flash more and

more, some browsers natively support to show (web-based and also stand-

alone) flash.

Regards,

Volker

[Bethan]

Hi Volker,

I saw this post earlier on but didn't have time to reply...

I think that displaying shows on the web has come up several times on the forum and is kind of related to this post. I agree that for those people involved in web design, or wanting to display their work on the web, Flash is such a versatile format. The size of some PTE shows may not easily translate into flash without serious compression but I wonder if PTE might have an option for converting a show into a basic flash output. I don't feel this is 'going away' from PTE's explicit function of creating 'slideshow presentations' - and would extend it's attraction to a good many people. I use PTE for many purposes and have often missed the ability to output in Flash - from within the program itself, therefore easing workflow.

I wonder Igor how much work this would involve after the next major update is released? Would not be expecting any such update until the new version is up and running - you already have enough work to do!

Beth

[Lin Evans]

This has been covered in some detail - go here:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=3547

Lin

[Bethan]

Hi Lin

Thanks for your reply, and the link to an earlier thread where I notice you advocate the use of Riva for flash creation. I think in this instance I (and I believe the initial poster) were asking about the value of having flash 'export' built in to PTE in some form, rather than having to transfer to a 3rd party program (extra expense, additional workflow). It may or may not be feasible for Igor at this stage (particularly as he is working hard on the architecture for the next release). For large flash projects I use Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash, but I would still find built-in flash export to be of great value - as would many who have asked about getting their shows on the web. It will be interesting, I imagine, to see what Adobe do with Flash (now that they have purchased Macromedia) - with their extra developmental and promotional power I could see Flash becoming even more commonplace than it is already!

Just a few little thoughts...

Beth

[Lin Evans]

Hi Lin

Thanks for your reply, and the link to an earlier thread where I notice you advocate the use of Riva for flash creation. I think in this instance I (and I believe the initial poster) were asking about the value of having flash 'export' built in to PTE in some form, rather than having to transfer to a 3rd party program (extra expense, additional workflow). It may or may not be feasible for Igor at this stage (particularly as he is working hard on the architecture for the next release). For large flash projects I use Macromedia (now Adobe) Flash, but I would still find built-in flash export to be of great value - as would many who have asked about getting their shows on the web. It will be interesting, I imagine, to see what Adobe do with Flash (now that they have purchased Macromedia) - with their extra developmental and promotional power I could see Flash becoming even more commonplace than it is already!

Just a few little thoughts...

Beth

Hi Beth,

What I meant was that Flash, as a solution, was discussed numerous times in previous threads and dismissed in favor of somthing better for the the upcoming version. The downside of Flash is that it doesn't handle fade transitions very smoothly. (PhotoDex) ProShow Gold elected to go with an Active X method which makes for very smooth transitions but carries the inherent threat of virus/trojan contamination so I believe Igor has something better in mind than either Flash or Active X for version 5.

I suggested Riva because it's the least expensive way to get a quality psuedo-streaming Flash show from an available AVI file. The price is about $30 and the player is free. There are numerous Flash solutions as you know, but many use the frame limited SWF (limited to an approx 16,000 frames) format which limits a 30 fps slideshow to 9 minutes, far less time than many need. Riva uses the FLV format which has no such limitation so works well with the exception of smoothness. In the past I've posted links to slideshows made with ProShow Gold using Riva to convert to FLV Flash. These slideshows also use the Ken Burns effects which P2E version 5 will have. The consensus has been that though they are "satisfactory" for a web show, there are better options which Igor and the other developers wanted to explore.

Best regards,

Lin

[Bethan]

The consensus has been that though they are "satisfactory" for a web show, there are better options which Igor and the other developers wanted to explore.

This sounds interesting, Lin! I'd be curious to know more about these other oprions.

Beth

[Ronniebootwest]

I am of the opinion that Flash files are a convenience only and in NO WAY compete with the quality produced in an EXE file.

I am not at all sure that the old attitude toward playing EXE files on a computer is still valis these days.

Ronnie

[Bethan]

Hi Ronnie

Sorry to have been so slow to reply to this - had a nasty cold for the last couple of days!

I don't think that the issue of quality (flash versus exe) was really being raised here. Rather it was an issue, perhaps, of PTE including some form of flash export as convenience for those wishing to present their work/images/show examples on a website. PTE already does the core of the work with regard to the creation of a show, and what has been raised here is more to do with the end formats available to the user. Once, the 'exe file' was more a solution to the fact that narrow band internet was simply unable to 'display' shows of any quality at all due to the need for huge compression. As a creative media form Flash has come more into it's own as a 'format'. In many cases the quality is very good though may lack the 'punch' and depth of an exe show. However, many users producing PTE shows, and who have websites too, may appreciate an option allowing them to provide a 'preview trailer' (at least) in Flash format rather than have viewers download a rather large exe simply to find it was not what they thought?

For me these are just ideas, keeping an open mind I guess about what might be useful or possible for future developments of PTE - after the next huge update for which most of us, I am sure, are very excited.

Beth

[Lin Evans]

Hi Ronnie

Sorry to have been so slow to reply to this - had a nasty cold for the last couple of days!

I don't think that the issue of quality (flash versus exe) was really being raised here. Rather it was an issue, perhaps, of PTE including some form of flash export as convenience for those wishing to present their work/images/show examples on a website. PTE already does the core of the work with regard to the creation of a show, and what has been raised here is more to do with the end formats available to the user. Once, the 'exe file' was more a solution to the fact that narrow band internet was simply unable to 'display' shows of any quality at all due to the need for huge compression. As a creative media form Flash has come more into it's own as a 'format'. In many cases the quality is very good though may lack the 'punch' and depth of an exe show. However, many users producing PTE shows, and who have websites too, may appreciate an option allowing them to provide a 'preview trailer' (at least) in Flash format rather than have viewers download a rather large exe simply to find it was not what they thought?

For me these are just ideas, keeping an open mind I guess about what might be useful or possible for future developments of PTE - after the next huge update for which most of us, I am sure, are very excited.

Beth

Hi Beth,

Hope the cold is better - I thought I would post a link to a slideshow I just put up in Flash FLV done with Riva Producer. It's a ProShow Gold slideshow, but probably will give you some idea of what we might expect in terms of P2E version 5 displayed as a Flash FLV show.

I suspect the quality of this one is perhaps about as good as we can expect from Flash with a reasonably large slideshow and numerous pan, zoom, scroll effects. This one was done with a large bitrate so is about as smooth as I can get the transitions and fades to work in Flash. It's 27 minutes long and the Flash code is a bit over 320 megabytes. It has a 10 second buffer so will be about 10 seconds after you see the screen before the actual show begins. With a reasonably fast video card, broadband and decent CPU it should be tolerable. Click the link to try it....

http://www.lin-evans.net/colorado/colorado.html

Best regards,

Lin

[alrobin]

Lin,

I get a message "Video not found or locked for fash.flv" when I click on that URL.

[ronwil]

Same with me. When I right click on the window, "Riva Website" and "Riva WebPlayer Version 2.05" appear inter alia in a drop down menu.

Ron [uK]

[ContaxMan]

I got the same message as Al.

[Ken Cox]

early bird gets the worm -- i got it at 03:01 am -- 49.99 mb

but locked now 07:14 am

ken

[Lin Evans]

early bird gets the worm -- i got it at 03:01 am -- 49.99 mb

but locked now 07:14 am

ken

Sorry - my server was doing strange things and I had to reload the file this morning. It "should" be working normally now - keeping my fingers crossed - HA!

There will be about a 10 second delay with the opening slide and text frozen while the buffer fills then the show should start. The running time is about 27 minutes.

This one is a real "torture test" for Flash. It demonstrates all the reasons why it's not very likely to work well for everyone. The file size is nearly 345 megabytes and the running time of the slideshow is 27 minutes. This combination means that the client who runs the show on the web must have a broadband capable of sustaning downloads of about 340,500,000/27 or over 12 meg per minute. With less you get hang up, freeze, start - stop, etc.

The only way to get the file size down it to diminish either the frame rate or the bitrate or both. If the frame rate is less than 29.7 frames per second you get flicker and jerky transition and if the bitrate is set under 1600 you get poor fades. The bottom line is that it's just not a great way to really get quality slideshows unless the client has considerable computer and internet power.

Those of you on cable with truly fast broadband download will probably find it works very smoothly but without optimal equipment it's a compromise. Hopefully Igor & company will find a better solution. The Active X solution which PhotoDex uses is quite smooth and works well for most but not for MacIntosh users. It also carries the danger of virus/worm infestation by hackers so for now I'm at a loss to come up with something better than Flash. I could diminish the image and show quality and get the bitrate and file size down, but then the quality is marginal.......

Best regards,

Lin

[ronwil]

That is working satisfactorily. Cannot view the whole sequence as of this time, but what I have seen I will certainly come back to it later. Thank you.

Ron [uK]

[alrobin]

Lin,

It works better now for me too. However, perhaps because the "network" was busy this AM, the show would suddenly stop until the stream caught up with it, continue on for a bit, and then stop again.

I agree with you that this is not a satisfactory way to distribute one's shows. I much prefer to download a show and watch it at my leisure on my own pc setup (perhaps with the benefit of large-screen projection), even if it is a show of over 300 mb.

[Lin Evans]

Lin,

It works better now for me too. However, perhaps because the "network" was busy this AM, the show would suddenly stop until the stream caught up with it, continue on for a bit, and then stop again.

I agree with you that this is not a satisfactory way to distribute one's shows. I much prefer to download a show and watch it at my leisure on my own pc setup (perhaps with the benefit of large-screen projection), even if it is a show of over 300 mb.

Hi Al,

Yes - that't what usually happens when the stream download can't quite keep up. Because the data is actually being deposited to a temp file, if you go back and try to run the show again after it temporarily hangs up a few times it will run smoothly unless or untill the temp file has been disrupted.

It's a pretty inefficient way to display the shows unless the person viewing has a really fast and efficient internet link. It works for us for most of our clients because they generally have T3 links. Generally even a good cable which download 4 mps or better will run it smoothly, but I would much prefer a system which spools this same show as an 80 meg rather than a 340 meg file. The executable for this same slideshow is under 80 meg.

Best regards,

Lin

[Ken Cox]

Al

let it all play and then copy it out of your temp int folder, paste to a different location

then you will need a flv player but is a small footprint program

http://www.rivavx.de/

and then you watch Lin's masterpiece at your leisure

runs smooth as a ba -

i mean smooth as silk

on your system rather than off the web

Ken

[alrobin]

Thanks, Ken - good idea. I didn't think of that. Actually, the connection was so slow that I gave up. Will try again later.

[Carol Steele]

I've been searching for a while to get good streaming slideshows and in the end elected to purchase a nice flash template from Winklet Web Design. I also can get quite nice fast shows for streaming online, but I need to use ProShow Gold in order to do this. I can keep the file size down to a reasonable 10-15Mb if I keep the image resolutions low (and small) and use low quality audio.

Here's a sample:-

http://www.carolsteele.co.uk/pages/slideshow/album_03.html

To see the flash slideshow go to my main intro page at:-

http://www.carolsteele.co.uk or http://www.devon-weddings.info

and hit the button for the flash portal.

[Lin Evans]

I've been searching for a while to get good streaming slideshows and in the end elected to purchase a nice flash template from Winklet Web Design. I also can get quite nice fast shows for streaming online, but I need to use ProShow Gold in order to do this. I can keep the file size down to a reasonable 10-15Mb if I keep the image resolutions low (and small) and use low quality audio.

Here's a sample:-

http://www.carolsteele.co.uk/pages/slideshow/album_03.html

To see the flash slideshow go to my main intro page at:-

http://www.carolsteele.co.uk or http://www.devon-weddings.info

and hit the button for the flash portal.

Hi Carol,

I use ProShow Gold as well for the Ken Burns effects but am anxiously awaiting Igor's implementation. - actually the Flash slideshow I've linked to is a ProShow conversion trom MPG2 to FLV Flash via Riva Producer.

The reason many of us don't want to use the same protocol as ProShow is that they use what is deemed to be a dangerous Windows Active X component which invites hackers to implant virus and trojans. It does work quite well in that you can get nice smooth transitions and excellent fades, etc., but it precludes MacIntosh users from watching which is why the interest in Flash.

The aprox 340,500,000 byte show I linked to is actually a worst case scenario where I've used a bitrate of 1600, a frame rate of 29.7 and a rather large file size of 640x480. This taxes all but the most robust client equipment and requires about a 12 megabyte per second download speed to run without hesitation.

The Riva Flash FLV implementation is excellent and not subject to the 16,000 absolute frame limits of SWF Flash so that there is no practical limit to the length of the show. The one I have linked to is 27 minutes in length with full sound. As an MPG2 file it's a bit over a gigabyte in size. As an optimized Flash file its nearly 340 megapbytes but as a full resolution executable it's only about 62 megabytes which shows the relative overhead carried by MPG2 and Flash compared to the executable. When coverted to a ProShow Active X it's quite good at under 80 megabytes.

The Ken Burns effects add a tremendous overhead because they require separate images for each transitional frame in any pan, zoom, rotate, etc., When these are converted to true video such as MGG2 or Flash the addition of nearly 30 frames per second for each transitional frame is added to the already larger files so that the end result is a honking big one.

I may do this slideshow again with Rive by making a much smaller frame and see how much improvement I can get.. If it could be brought down to about 150 meg in files size at 27 minutes in length it would only require about five megabytes per minute which would bring it much closer to what many could achieve for a smooth show. I also used lower quality sound, but the sound really isn't the big overhead it's the bitrate which is a killer and the bitrate must be high to handle smooth fades.

I like your slideshows and think that in many cases the smaller Flash implementation would work well but probably not for all. We usually offer our shows in DVD, Executable or Flash depending on the client's ability to read them. Primarily we have Flash for our MacIntosh based clients.

Best regards,

Lin