Aspect Ratios

[nickles]

Hello Everybody

This is just an experiment I wish to share with all that might be interested. I’ve been trying to get a good understanding of Pan & Zoom as related to a photos aspect ratio and the corresponding aspect ratio of the monitor to be used to view the photo in PTE 5.

Most cameras shoot photos in two different aspect ratios, i.e., 6x4 and 4x3. There are variations but these are the most common. PC monitors used to be exclusively 4x3 but the world has changed. 4x3 is probably still the most common. The new flat screen LCD monitors are normally 5x4. Wide screen Laptops are typically 8x5. Plasma or LCD HDTV’s are typically 16x9.

Thus, the aspect ratios a PTE 5 designer must contend with are:

6x4

4x3

5x4

8x5

16x9

I grabbed a photo from a digital 6mp SLR that has an aspect ratio of 6x4. I then proceeded to crop from this original (3072x2048 pixels) the various aspect ratios listed above. These were all straight crops with no resizing. This resulted in 5 jpgs with pixel sizes as follows:

Photo_6x4 = 3072x2048

Photo_4x3 = 2741x2048

Photo_5x4 = 2560x2048

Photo_8x5 = 3072x1920

Photo_16x9 = 3072x1728

I divided each photograph in precise quadrants with a white outline for each quarter. I created a PTE 5 slideshow with the 5 images. The slideshow starts with the 6x4 image at a zoom of 100% with the properties mode set at “fit to screen”. The show then zooms to the upper left quadrant at 200% zoom. The show then pans to the upper right quadrant followed by a pan to the lower right quadrant and then to the botom left quadrant all at 200% zoom. The show then zooms back out at 100%. This is followed by a zoom to the photos center at 200%. This process is then repeated for the remaining 4 photos of varying aspect ratios.

I have posted the slideshow PTE files at the following location:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/sknickles@sb...ic+Data&.view=l

It’s the file named Pan&Zoom and is approximately 6.5mb in size. You may have to hit the browser refresh several times to access the file.

The project option for screen has been set to 4:3 PC. If you download you may desire to change this option and view the effect. The object property for all images was set to “fit to screen”. You might also desire to change this and view the effect. I presently have computer displays of 4x3, 5x4, and 8x5 aspect ratios that I have ran the show on. I’ve not drawn any conclusions yet but it does give me a pretty good feel for how the Pan & Zoom is affected by aspect ratios. Of course most of you most likely understand all of this…I may just be a slow learner.

nickles

[ronwil]

Ken

Unable to open the project. Error report reads "Title for 5.png missing".

Off to bed now.

Ron [uK]

[bharkins]

Could not open the URL either. Tried Firefox and IE - no go.

Bill

[Ken Cox]

worked for me at 17:30

ken

[nickles]

Could not open the URL either. Tried Firefox and IE - no go.

Bill

Bill:

May take up to a half dozen hits on your browser refresh. It normally takes me 3-6 hits to even be able to upload.

Sorry...It's a Yahoo DSL problem.

ken

[bharkins]

You're right - it took 6 or 8 bangs on the refresh button (in Firefox), plus a couple of Yahoo error messages, but I did open it. A very nice image, sharp as a tack. A good example of setting keypoints from start of an action to the end. What are we to conclude with the various aspect ratios as to building slide shows, with or without 5.0?

Bill

[nickles]

You're right - it took 6 or 8 bangs on the refresh button (in Firefox), plus a couple of Yahoo error messages, but I did open it. A very nice image, sharp as a tack. A good example of setting keypoints from start of an action to the end. What are we to conclude with the various aspect ratios as to building slide shows, with or without 5.0?

Bill

Bill:

I'm looking for an answer to your question. This slideshow is my starting point. So many variables with Photo Size, Aspect Ratios, and Screen Resolutions.

Sincerely,

Ken

[alrobin]

Ken,

Now that you've got our attention, could you please tell us what you have concluded from this exercise? Everything seems to be behaving as expected.

[nickles]

Ken,

Now that you've got our attention, could you please tell us what you have concluded from this exercise? Everything seems to be behaving as expected.

Al,

Soon as I come up with a conclusion I will post it. I've had a difficult time figuring out the zoom percentage. There is a % of display and a % of image. If I'm designing a show on a Laptop with an 8:5 aspect ratio, what screen aspect do I select under project options? Under Object properties "mode" do I select "original", "fit to screen", or "cover screen". I desire for the show to run on all aspect ratios with maximum use of the screen it is being view on. I'm sure there is a proper decison process to go through...I'm just slow at figuring it out.

I thought if a few people download the Pan&Zoom files and played around with the aspects they might assist in my conclusion. I prefer fullscreen images with no black bars top or side. It appears this can be done with "cover screen", but that only works for the aspect ratio entered in the project options.

Ken

[davegee]

Hi Ken,

I have tried your Pan & Zoom demo and am sorry to say that none of the options you give work successfully on my 1280x1024 monitor. There are black lines above, below and to the sides of all of the zooms. What doesn't help is that you have chosen to put your white line on the image in Photoshop or similar. This means that the white line is constantly moving during PZR.

Like you, at first, I was trying to avoid the black areas but on the other hand do not want to lose the pixel generating power of the 3:2 aspect ratio of my DSLR. I have always tried to compose my images within the camera and very often find that a 1280x1024 crop from a 3000x2000 image is just impossible. Here is the compromise I decided on:

I have decided to proceed with the 3:2 aspect ratio images on my 1280x1024 monitor and put the boundary white line on in PTE instead of doing it on the image itself. Igor has given us the opportunity to do this and it works quite well.

My zooms, pans and rotates now take place within a fixed white 1280x854 frame superimposed on a 1280x1024 black background and I am learning to live with the black areas above and below the image because they are separated by this FIXED white line boundary.

My screen settings are: Fit to screen (for the time being), Custom and 1.5.

I have also had some thoughts about the pixel sizes of the various images I am using. As I said above my monitor resolution is 1280x1024 and if I am only performing a small amount of zoom why use a 3000x2000 image? It makes more sense to me to tailor the pixel size of my image to the way I intend to use it. PTE must use up processing power in interpolating the 3000x2000 image to fit the screen whether it is interpolating up or down and Igor stated some time ago that PTE does the interpolating DOWN better than it does the interpolating UP.

So let's say that I have an image that I will want to zoom into at 120%. All I have to do is multiply the 1280 width by 1.2 and I have the pixel width size of the image necessary to perform the zoom. Try it - it works. Instead of needing a 750KB file I only need a 350Kb file (for the same compression ratio). The result is the same quality in a smaller file size and less processing power is needed for interpolating the image leaving more to handle the PZR functions.

I also noticed, early on, some unwanted effects taking place when OVER-ZOOMING and came up with the following figures for MAXIMUM amounts of zooming possible with various different image sizes. Bear in mind that these figures are for a 1280 pixel wide monitor and avoid UPWARD interpolation by PTE. The figures would change for a different size monitor.

3000 pixels wide image - 229% Max Zoom

2500 pixels wide image - 195% Max Zoom

2000 pixels wide image - 156% Max Zoom

1500 pixels wide image - 117% Max Zoom

DaveG

[nickles]

Hi Ken,

I have tried your Pan & Zoom demo and am sorry to say that none of the options you give work successfully on my 1280x1024 monitor. There are black lines above, below and to the sides of all of the zooms. What doesn't help is that you have chosen to put your white line on the image in Photoshop or similar. This means that the white line is constantly moving during PZR.

Hello DaveG:

I am presently running on a 1280x1024 monitor also. If I set the Project Options to either 4:3 PC/DVD or 5:4 PC I don't get black bars on the sides, of course, depending on the photos aspect ratio, I do get black bars at the top or bottom when zooming. I'm surprised that you are getting black bars on the sides, as I'm not? The reason I put the white bars in is to mark the 200% zoom quadrants...just to verify the 200% when zooming.

I think people might be surprised if they design there show on a 1280x1024 display with the project option set at 5:4 PC and then go to a friends house whom has a 4:3 display to view. There will be a 40 pixel band on each side regardless of the images aspect ratio. If they design the show with the project option set to 4:3 it will appear without the 40 pixel side bands on both the 1280x1024 display and the 4:3, i.e.,1024x768, display. I don't feel at all comfortable with PTE 5's Project Option for screen aspect. It would be better if it fit the maximum image dimension too whatever screen the show is played on. Thus, one could do away with that option.

I would really like to see PTE 5 with a "fill the screen" function. A feature that the slideshow viewer could cause to happen with a function key. It would zoom into the center of the slide sufficiently to "fill the entire screen". A similar function is available on most DVD players.

I 100% concur with your math in determing image size by multiplying by zoom factor. That's exactly how I was approaching it...I'm very glad you put it in writing.

I started this thread primarily to share some cropped slides for people to play around with...that was probably a mistake on my part...as I don't have the answers...just some potential problems. In fact it's given me a bit of a headache studying it. I think I'll just observe this thread for a bit and let it die on it's on accord.

Thanks for your very beneficial inputs.

Sincerely,

ken

[davegee]

Hi Ken,

I have sent you a personal e-mail which hopefully will demonstrate the "white line around shows in PTE5" principle and also how a PTE5 template can be cut down to around 20 Kb so that Forum Members can e-mail very small files between themselves to demonstrate PTE5 Techniques.

DaveG

[LumenLux]

Ken - Just the thought of trying to deal with all the aspect ratios and screen sizes is very intimidating to some of us! So as long as you already have the headache - please stick with it and ultimately share your conclusions. After deep deliberation, I mustered the courage to at least look at your posted comparison. Without treading on headache ground, I can say: In the case of both photos, the zoom of the large dimension file gave better (clearer, more detail) picture. If however, I had not had the available larger photo, I would not have noticed any problem or deficiency in the smaller photos.

It is nice to have an understanding of these things so we can then pass the "worry" one step further. In this case (if in an actual show) we can then ask is the clarity of the larger photo worth the risk of the larger file making the show less smooth on a less powerful graphics card> Do you agree?

[nickles]

It is nice to have an understanding of these things so we can then pass the "worry" one step further. In this case (if in an actual show) we can then ask is the clarity of the larger photo worth the risk of the larger file making the show less smooth on a less powerful graphics card> Do you agree?

Hello Robert C.:

Have you been off photographing that wonderful Utah scenery again? Yes, I definitely agree. I tried to demonstrate and explain the trade-offs in this thread:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4492

You may have already took a peak at it.

Sincerely,

nickles

[LumenLux]

Hello Robert C.:

Have you been off photographing that wonderful Utah scenery again? Yes, I definitely agree. I tried to demonstrate and explain the trade-offs in this thread:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4492

You may have already took a peak at it.

Sincerely,

nickles

Guilty on all counts.

Memorial Day is typically when I can expect access to my "moose country" without the risk of snow blocking the road somewhere. This memorial day was perfect. It was cold but the moose came calling early and checked back frequently. They did their part likely better than I did my part. I haven't looked yet at all the photos except on the tiny camera screen. But my past moose photos on digital have seemed to be inferior to my earlier film shots. This is strange because almost all other subjects seem to do as well or better with digital. (Maybe Lin can tell me if he has any "digital" problems in his wildlife work.)

So that is my excuse for having missed your other topic where you clearly describe what I had missed by reading only this topic. Now I have read, and found helpful, that info. I still feel inclined to "hide my head in the sand" and do my shows at 1024x768! So, some self-searching or self-examining of my self may be in order. You know there is a lot coming very fast in the last few weeks. You don't have to be away long to feel (needlessly, I hope) left behind. But it is sure nice to be out getting the pictures!

[nickles]

I still feel inclined to "hide my head in the sand" and do my shows at 1024x768! So, some self-searching or self-examining of my self may be in order. You know there is a lot coming very fast in the last few weeks. You don't have to be away long to feel (needlessly, I hope) left behind. But it is sure nice to be out getting the pictures!

1024x768...that's pretty much been my standard mode of operation, but the worlds changing all around us. I look around my office and a 1024x768 display is a rarity...the more common being a 1280x1024 flat panel. I still do all my editng on a 4:3 CRT as my experience with flat panels has not been very good when trying to adjust color and contrast. My demo was related to for 200% zooming into a 1280 width original image. I thought the degradation was reasonably acceptable. A zoom from 1024 to 1280 width to fit your image to the typical flat panel is only a 25% zoom...I would expect very little deterioration. Your last statement above is giving me concerns. I may just have to put the forum aside for a while..pack up my camera and go off to the wild blue yonders. What good is PTE without the main thing...Photos?

Ken