Aspect Ratios

[alrobin]

Hello Al,

I gather you must be in disagreement with the two points that I made?

I'm at a loss as to your description of DVD 16:9 format as related to 5:4 screen format as related to "the intention of Igor's development" as related to "full screen" as related to my two points.

If I had only read your last paragraph, I would have thought that you agreed.

ken

Ken,

Yes, I agree with your two points, with emphasis being on "when a slide show designer creates a slideshow with PTE 5, he should be able to create a slideshow in which all the slides "fit the screen" regardless of the aspect ratio of the screen on which the show is played. "

And, I agree too that at present this is not the case.

(Forget about the "16:9/dvd" statement - it was only an example. Any other aspect ratio would work just as well).

What I would like to add is that, IMHO, the present design with respect to "fit to screen" should be left as is (the default condition). Usually, most slides in a show are of the same size, the exceptions being some verticals, perhaps, or some smaller images such as text which one does not want blown up and pixellated. So, as it is presently designed, by fixing the aspect ratio of the show to this most common image size in a show, all of these images will "fit the screen" on any monitor. So far so good. So, the question is how to make other-aspect-ratio images also "fit the screen" on any monitor. I suspect that the majority of designers, myself included, would prefer the presently-designed "fit-to-screen" capabilities with an option added in "O/A" to adjust individual images to a different "fit", particularly one outside the black box, if that were desired.

We already have that capability when it comes to images that are smaller than the "show size", as it is a simple matter to "zoom out" in O/A and reduce their size to what is desired, relative to the black rectangle. It's the images larger than what the set aspect ratio allows that would be a problem and need an additional option to make them go "outside the box" if the designer wanted them to do so on other monitors.

Does this make sense? Let's hear from some other forum members as to their preferences, now that we've thrashed this around so much that probably no one else will even understand the question, including ourselves.

[nickles]

Does this make sense? Let's hear from some other forum members as to their preferences, now that we've thrashed this around so much that probably no one else will even understand the question, including ourselves.

I think it all made perfect sense to me and I have no disagreement....infact I think you have provided excellent thinking for constructing additional points...but let's first see if Dave agrees with the first two points.

I desire that between us, we come up with a list of very coherent points that offer constructive suggestions to Igor and gang. I think we'll be better off if we develop one or two well defined points at a time.

I'm now trimming low hanging limbs of trees....which I should have done in the fall when it was much....cooler.

Sincerely,

ken

[Igor]

I apologize that choice of aspect ratio and modes looks a little bit complicated on first look.

We adopted this idea from DVD-Video, DVD players, and video projectors.

There are two modes in Project options which describes how slide will be shown of a screen.

"Fit to screen" always fit the slide (keeping choosed aspect ratio) on the screen, without cropping of parts of a slide.

"Cover screen" - slide will be enlarged (also keeping aspect ratio) to cover all screen. Some parts of the slide will be invisible outside of the screen.

Pan/Zoom effects definitely requires aspect ratio modes.

Anyway we're trying to suggest optimal settings by default and no need to change them if you don't have time to learn all them.

About "Cover screen" mode.

Almost all DVD players or TV screens suggests this option for watching DVD disc. With this option wide picture of a movie will be enlarged to cover all TV screen.

You can enabled this option in slide-shows in two ways:

1) Using command line - type for example: pteshow.exe -cover for my demo slide-show.

2) And second way globally for all displays enabling this option in Project options.

I agree that this global option maybe dangerous without full explorering how it works. But for some authors this option can be usuful. Probably we have to explain in Project options how it exactly works?

About confusion with four similar options "Fit to screen" and "Covert screen" in Project options and in "Objects and Animation" window.

It's my mistake, although they are similar, but in Objects and Animation I will rename them to "Fit to slide" and "Cover slide".

[alrobin]

There are two modes in Project options which describes how slide will be shown of a screen.

"Fit to screen" always fit the slide (keeping choosed aspect ratio) on the screen, without cropping of parts of a slide.

"Cover screen" - slide will be enlarged (also keeping aspect ratio) to cover all screen. Some parts of the slide will be invisible outside of the screen.

Probably it's still looks difficult, but Pan/Zoom effects definitely requires aspect ratio modes.

Igor,

Thank-you for you well-thought-out response. Like I said, you are always one step ahead of us!

There is one situation that Ken (Nickles), DaveG and I have been discussing in this thread, however, that we don't see a solution for in the current v.5. This is the case where one has a certain aspect ratio selected for a show (say 16:9), and is viewing the show on a 4:3 monitor.

Currently, if "fit to screen" is selected, the images (assuming they are also 16:9), will show on the narrow monitor with black bands top and bottom. I realize that this is unavoidable, in order to not crop and also to retain proportionality (not squish the image).

When one views a narrow image (say 5:4) in this same show, there are black bars not only top and bottom (to be consistent with the aspect ratio of the show (16:9), but also on each ends (due to the "5:4" aspect of the image). There does not seem to be an option to allow the maker to have these odd-shaped images fill the screen, given the settings already described.

"Cover screen" would do it, but there would be some cropping. Perhaps we need another option (just when we were agreeing not to over complicate things) which would allow the narrow images to be shown "fit-to screen" on all monitors being used to view the show, and still have the overall aspect ratio remain at 16:9.

Any thoughts on this? Or are we missing a feature already available in v.5 which would accomplish this?

[Igor]

Al,

We can add special option to "Customize slide" window which may override global settings of aspect ratio for such slides where you want to use another aspect ratio.

Question about "Cover screen" option.

What do you think if I will show warning message when you choose this mode in Project options:

"Cover screen" mode may gives unexpected results. For example, if you set 4:3 aspect ratio and your photos 1024x768, on wide screen displays slide will be enlarged to cover entire screen and some parts of slide will be leaved outside of the screen. It better to use "Fit to screen" mode, recommended by default.

[alrobin]

Al,

We can add special option to "Customize slide" window which may override global settings of aspect ratio for such slides where you want to use another aspect ratio.

That would be useful, but it would help too, if possible, if an option were added to "project options" such that all images would be fitted to the "screen", (not just to the black rectangle), without the maker having to adjust them one by one. This is the way it works now in v.4.

Question about "Cover screen" option.

What do you think if I will show warning message when you choose this mode in Project options:

I think that this would be a good idea, as it might remind the maker to turn off the option where cropping would be undesirable.

I have a question relating to these features: If we choose "Original" instead of "Fit to screen" or "Cover screen", will objects be scaled so that they appear in the same relative place under different screen aspect ratios?

[nickles]

Hello Al and Igor,

Unfortunately, I've been working on other matters and missed your important posts.

Hey Igor! It's nice to see your face pop up in this thread.

A few of questions for you.

1.) Not being a software guru like yourself self your staff, Is there an internal requirement within the video card that requires an input to it of the screen aspect ratio? I was hoping ultimately that the slideshow designer would not need to enter it. Much like PTE 4 operates.

2.) If we must enter a screen aspect ratio...would it be possible...maybe in the Object&Animation window...to be able to view your slideshow as it will appear on another screens aspect ratio other than the one you are required to select? With the present beta, I have found that if I produce a slideshow for a selected 5:4 screen aspect I must go find a computer with a different screen aspect to be sure how it will appear on that aspect. I think most designers may not have access to other screen aspects than the one they are designing on.

3.) Would it be possible or feasible for "cover screen" to be activated during the running of a slide show through the use of a function key? Much like todays DVD players and Wide Screen TVs operate through there remotes.

Sincerely,

Ken

[nickles]

Hello Al,

That would be useful, but it would help too, if possible, if an option were added to "project options" such that all images would be fitted to the "screen", (not just to the black rectangle), without the maker having to adjust them one by one. This is the way it works now in v.4.

Sorry, in my excitement that Igor joined us, I missed your suggestion. I second your suggestion.

Sincerely,

ken

Al & Igor,

Y'all will probablly think "what an idiot" but from Start/Run can you do the following or must it be command line?

1) Using command line - type for example: pteshow.exe -cover for my demo slide-show.

ken

[alrobin]

Al & Igor,

Y'all will probablly think "what an idiot" but from Start/Run can you do the following or must it be command line?

ken

I thought it should work from the Start menu, but I tried, and apparently not.

[nickles]

I thought it should work from the Start menu, but I tried, and apparently not.

I couldn't get it to work from the command line either...I must be entering sumpin' wrong?

[alrobin]

Ken,

Sorry about that - when I browsed for the file in "Start/run" I had everything enclosed in quotation marks. I went back and tried it again, and this time separated out the -cover from the quotes, and it worked fine!

[davegee]

Hi Igor,

I am not sure what you are proposing along with Al and Ken, but please remember that some, myself included are quite happy to proceed with what I proposed when I started this thread i.e. the combination of "Fit To Screen" and "Windowed Mode" which would allow for the playing of ANY aspect ratio on ANY monitor.

DaveG

[Igor]

Al,

if possible, if an option were added to "project options" such that all images would be fitted to the "screen", (not just to the black rectangle), without the maker having to adjust them one by one. This is the way it works now in v.4.

For static images it will works. But it is also dangerous option. In case of Pan/Zoom slide should has constant aspect ratio. Motions of objects will be distorted, depended on particular display. Like "Cover screen" it will gives unexpected results.

I feel that you understand very well our problems now

If we choose "Original" instead of "Fit to screen" or "Cover screen", will objects be scaled so that they appear in the same relative place under different screen aspect ratios?

"Original size" with 100% of Zoom values means that image will be displayed as is in source size (e.g. 512x512) without resizing on any display - pixel in pixel. It can be used for static objects, not for animation.

Ken,

1.) Not being a software guru like yourself self your staff, Is there an internal requirement within the video card that requires an input to it of the screen aspect ratio? I was hoping ultimately that the slideshow designer would not need to enter it. Much like PTE 4 operates.

No video doesn't requires it.

But as I wrote Al above, for Pan/Zoom effects we have to specify aspect ratio. All products which suggests these effects uses aspect ratio. Some programs don't ask you, but always locked to 4:3 aspect ratio.

We can allows free size of slide like v4.xx, but I'm afraid that there will be many wrong slide-shows if their author forget or don't learn that this option is not designed for Pan/Zoom animation.

view your slideshow as it will appear on another screens aspect ratio

Sorry, I didn't understood earlier your question, I think it's good idea. I'll try to realize it, but can't promiss exact date.

Would it be possible or feasible for "cover screen" to be activated during the running of a slide show through the use of a function key?

Yes, it will possible. I scheduled this ability. Please wait for the next betas!

Dave,

You're right, in windowed mode there are no aspect ration and other modes - you determine width/height of a slide and it will work so on any display. In fact you specify aspect ratio. Because aspect ratio = width divided on height

Aspect ratio is absolutely necessary thing in Pan/Zoom effects in all slide-show makers.

[Igor]

Al,

OK, we discussed problem of "Cover screen" mode and decided to remove this option from Project option. It's a dangerous option. This option will be available with new Navigation bar from slide-show.

Also as I wrote "Cover screen" mode available via command line:

Please download my example I just prepared: http://www.wnsoft.com/test/Fit_vs_Cover.zip (900 KB)

This slide-show created with aspect ratio 16:9.

- So if you run EXE file - you see wide slide on your screen.

- If you run CoverScreen.bat file (look at him in notepad) you will see that slide enlarged and covers entire screen.

[nickles]

Ken,

No video doesn't requires it.

But as I wrote Al above, for Pan/Zoom effects we have to specify aspect ratio. All products which suggests these effects uses aspect ratio. Some programs don't ask you, but always locked to 4:3 aspect ratio.

We can allows free size of slide like v4.xx, but I'm afraid that there will be many wrong slide-shows if their author forget or don't learn that this option is not designed for Pan/Zoom animation.

Sorry, I didn't understood earlier your question, I think it's good idea. I'll try to realize it, but can't promiss exact date.

Yes, it will possible. I scheduled this ability. Please wait for the next betas!

Thank you for your consideration of these questions and I feel that I understand all your answers. The panning while zooming provides lot's of complexities for your developments...that we the users don't see. Continue on...I'm laying this subject aside...you are the expert!

Very Sincerely,

Ken

[alrobin]

Al,

For static images it will works. But it is also dangerous option. In case of Pan/Zoom slide should has constant aspect ratio. Motions of objects will be distorted, depended on particular display. Like "Cover screen" it will gives unexpected results.

I feel that you understand very well our problems now

"Original size" with 100% of Zoom values means that image will be displayed as is in source size (e.g. 512x512) without resizing on any display - pixel in pixel. It can be used for static objects, not for animation.

...........

Igor,

Thanks for your detailed reply. It answers many of the uncertainty around this complicated topic. I appreciate the difficulty you must be facing in trying to make compromises in order to make all the PZR features work properly in the maximum number of potential combinations of monitor sizes and resolutions, etc.

As I said before, I don't see the need for "Cover screen" - I wouldn't want my images arbitrarily cropped just because someone might be viewing a show on a "non-compatible" monitor.

Also, I think it would be useful if a feature could be added such that a viewer could tell ahead of time what aspect ratio a particular show was created for.

Al,

OK, we discussed problem of "Cover screen" mode and decided to remove this option from Project option. It's a dangerous option. This option will be available with new Navigation bar from slide-show.

Also as I wrote "Cover screen" mode available via command line:

Please download my example I just prepared: http://www.wnsoft.com/test/Fit_vs_Cover.zip (900 KB)

This slide-show created with aspect ratio 16:9.

- So if you run EXE file - you see wide slide on your screen.

- If you run CoverScreen.bat file (look at him in notepad) you will see that slide enlarged and covers entire screen.

Igor,

I think that's a wise move - at least it will still be available for those few who want it.

Your demo actually looks better in "cover screen" mode, though - gets rid of some of the distracting foliage on the sides!

Thanks again for your help in clearing up some of these issues, and explaining them to us "numb-skulls"! (speaking for myself, of course.)