Suggestion for timing shows

[lathompson]

I just thought of this as a solutiion for some of my slideshow clients. So many of them want me to use popular, current music on their slideshows. That's illegal in the USA. It would not be illegal, however, if they played their own music CD at the same time they watched their slideshow. I know this might sound silly to some folks, but it is a solution for those clients that want me to break the law and record the copyrighted music into their slideshows.

Here's the way it would work:

The client has the right to play any music he wants while he watches my slideshow in his home. He times the music and tells me how long it takes to play it. I produce the slideshow without music and the client can now play his CD alongside the slideshow and it will time out together.

All I have to do is complete the slideshow (with any number of photos), set the time for the transitions to take place and order the show to run for the the requested amount of time. No timeline, no math. Is this a feasable thing to do? It seems like if you can automatically sync any number of images to any number of songs added to the show, without paying attention to how long a song is, you could make a way to sync it to that same length without music being added to the show!

I know you can set the time for each image to remain on screen, and syncing using the timeline is very time consuming and would require a lot of math skills. This would be a very quick way to set a show's length precisely. Could this be done easily?

[Ronniebootwest]

Sounds like an interesting thought!

I will watch this thread with interest.

Ron

[ronwil]

Whilst your idea is not something I need to use, if you had a copy of your client's piece of music, you could always assemble the sequence using it, then remove it before creating the executable file.

Ron [uK]

[ronwil]

Whilst your idea is not something I need to use, if you had a copy of your client's piece of music, you could always assemble the sequence using it, then remove it before creating the executable file.

Ron [uK]

[lathompson]

Whilst your idea is not something I need to use, if you had a copy of your client's piece of music, you could always assemble the sequence using it, then remove it before creating the executable file.

Ron [uK]

Ron, are you saying that a show will time the same after I remove the music from the que? If that's the case, that's the answer right there. As long as I don't release a show with the music in it, I'm okay. I'll give that a try tomorrow when I'm at the office. Thanks for the suggestion!

FYI, I have been shopped for copyright infringement twice in the last 2 years. The second time I got shopped, I was accused of using copyrighted music, however I quickly showed them it was royalty free and they went their way. Much of what I do is shown publicly. This is a way to solve that probelm... at least for me. That public showing would not be my doing. That's my reason for leaving pop music alone. Only use it for my private shows.

lt

[ronwil]

Yes that is what I am suggesting but I haven't tried it. But if that doesn't work create a second piece of silence the same length as a replacement before creating your final *.exe file.

Good luck

Ron [uK]

[thedom]

lathompson,

Could you please give me the link to your website ?

(Why ? See this post).

Thanks.

[lathompson]

Dom, my website is: www.tphoto.net

Ron, making a silence of a certain length is not a problem, however it does add to my time in the creation of a show. Time is money... I'd like to shorten that in any way I can. I'm going to try the first suggestion later this morning.

Thanks!

lt

[lathompson]

Ron, I tried making the show, then taking the music out after making the show. I removed it from the folder after saving the .pte with the song in place, then finished the .exe. It didn't work. The first slide same up and stayed there.

Oh well... it was a nice idea. Guess the only way to do this is making that period of silence for an exact length. I just got an idea!

I can make several "pieces of silence" of varying lengths: 40min, 20min, 10min, 5min, 2min, 1min, 40sec, 20sec, 10sec, 5sec, 1sec. When needed, I can stich them together to come up with an exact length of silence. That's faster than recording it each time you want an exact timing.

lt

[dagrace]

Ron, I tried making the show, then taking the music out after making the show. I removed it from the folder after saving the .pte with the song in place, then finished the .exe. It didn't work. The first slide same up and stayed there.

Oh well... it was a nice idea. Guess the only way to do this is making that period of silence for an exact length. I just got an idea!

I can make several "pieces of silence" of varying lengths: 40min, 20min, 10min, 5min, 2min, 1min, 40sec, 20sec, 10sec, 5sec, 1sec. When needed, I can stich them together to come up with an exact length of silence. That's faster than recording it each time you want an exact timing.

lt

I'm a day late and a dollar short... but I thought there was an interaction between having music loaded and the length of the show, or, more accurately, NOT having music and controlling the length of the show. You have confirmed my recollection. This is of great interest to me, however, so if you have any more revelations, please post them.

[JohnFeg]

Ron, are you saying that a show will time the same after I remove the music from the que? If that's the case, that's the answer right there. As long as I don't release a show with the music in it, I'm okay. I'll give that a try tomorrow when I'm at the office. Thanks for the suggestion!

FYI, I have been shopped for copyright infringement twice in the last 2 years. The second time I got shopped, I was accused of using copyrighted music, however I quickly showed them it was royalty free and they went their way. Much of what I do is shown publicly. This is a way to solve that probelm... at least for me. That public showing would not be my doing. That's my reason for leaving pop music alone. Only use it for my private shows.

lt

If you go to Project Options>Main and set your slide durations to "Customise" so that they cumulatively add up to the music duration. Then remove the music, I'm pretty sure your show will run.

John

[lathompson]

If you go to Project Options>Main and set your slide durations to "Customise" so that they cumulatively add up to the music duration. Then remove the music, I'm pretty sure your show will run.

John

John, could you please explain that in a little more detail. The only thing I saw on the MAIN tab was a button to Customize synchronization, which leads to the timeline, where I see the options at the top left. None of these options work. When I choose one, then go back to remove the music, the saving of the EXE brings a popup box telling me it cannot find the music. That's the end of that.

Am I missing something?

lt

[JohnFeg]

John, could you please explain that in a little more detail. The only thing I saw on the MAIN tab was a button to Customize synchronization, which leads to the timeline, where I see the options at the top left. None of these options work. When I choose one, then go back to remove the music, the saving of the EXE brings a popup box telling me it cannot find the music. That's the end of that.

Am I missing something?

lt

I think that it is easier to do from the main screen.

If you want all the slides to show for the same duration, things are very easy. Select all the slides in the Slide List (you can click the first slide hold down shift key then click on the last slide) > Click "Customise Slide" button > Tick the box "Use Customised Settings" > go to "Main" tab and set the duration (In your case the duration of the music divided by the number of slides)

If you want your slides displayed for varying durations, you'll have to set the "Customise" parameters individually or in group of the same duration.

Good luck

John

[lathompson]

I think that it is easier to do from the main screen.

If you want all the slides to show for the same duration, things are very easy. Select all the slides in the Slide List (you can click the first slide hold down shift key then click on the last slide) > Click "Customise Slide" button > Tick the box "Use Customised Settings" > go to "Main" tab and set the duration (In your case the duration of the music divided by the number of slides)

If you want your slides displayed for varying durations, you'll have to set the "Customise" parameters individually or in group of the same duration.

Good luck

John

John, what you have described is just what I want to avoid. My idea was to just set the time I want the show to run, enter the transition timing to be used for all slides and save it. That requires less time than what it just took to type the sentence.

I really don't want to place the client's music into my system. That means that I have to rip it, then load the songs, check the running time and do the math, then go back to the main menu and enter the total time for each slide to appear and finally, go back and remove the music. And let's say the client rips his own music, I still have to check it since many of the clients make mistakes and rip the wrong songs, or worse yet, they name them wrong. That's the very time consuming effort I'm trying to avoid.

I don't think there's any way to save time as the program is currently written. OTOH, this isn't something that many users are going to jump up and down for... maybe I'm the only one on the planet that wants such a feature. If so, I wouldn't expect anyone to spend much energy making it happen just for me.

Maybe Igor is paying notice to this post. I have a LOT of clients that this would please. It doesn't seem like a hard thing to provide, but I might be wrong... I'm just guessing... and wishing!

lt

[alrobin]

Larry,

I have been wondering, too, over the past couple of years whether something similar to what you describe would be possible, as we have the same problems here with copyright music. My application would be in sending AV sequences to competitions - if a system you described were available, one would simply send the original music CD along with a CD containing the show.

One other possible solution would be to use the music selection for synching purposes, only, in setting up the show, then reduce the sound level on the selection in a sound editor to the point where it becomes inaudible, and stuff it back into the PTE project for use in continuing to sync the show. ??

However, I doubt that the timing of the show and that of the CD playback would retain their synchronization adequately. Plus, the person watching the show would have to have some signal whereby to start the playback of either the music CD or the show on the pc.

There has to be a way to work around the "copy-cops"!!

[lathompson]

Larry,

I have been wondering, too, over the past couple of years whether something similar to what you describe would be possible, as we have the same problems here with copyright music. My application would be in sending AV sequences to competitions - if a system you described were available, one would simply send the original music CD along with a CD containing the show.

Actually Al, that scenario you are painting is going to be illegal for whomever should sync up the show with the soundtrack. It is still an illegal use of the music. My idea is to allow the purchasers of my slideshow to make their own choices. I only design the show for them to an exact length. I cannot be responsible for what they do with it. That let's people enjoy their show with their own music in the privacy of their home. Nobody is doing anything illegal here. If the customer should decide to make a public display and play his music with the show, I am free from doing any illegal acts.

One other possible solution would be to use the music selection for synching purposes, only, in setting up the show, then reduce the sound level on the selection in a sound editor to the point where it becomes inaudible, and stuff it back into the PTE project for use in continuing to sync the show. ??

Yes, that would work Al, however it would be much faster and more efficient to simply type the timing into a blank field designed to automate the timing process instantly. Remember, in order to do what you're suggesting, you have to re-master the music and place it. For whatever amount of time that takes, it will be too much... if my idea is doable.

However, I doubt that the timing of the show and that of the CD playback would retain their synchronization adequately. Plus, the person watching the show would have to have some signal whereby to start the playback of either the music CD or the show on the pc.

There has to be a way to work around the "copy-cops"!!

Yes, that's true for shows that are built for some exact timing. My purpose is for folks that want me to build a nice show, make the images stay up for, say 8 seconds each, and end with a fade to black. Simple show, no exact timing required.

For me, it would be a very big savings in time. For most everyone else that makes slideshows, it may not have any value at all. I know that a lot of shows, including many that are posted from sources available in this forum, do contain music that is technically illegal to use for other than private showings, and I'm not trying to be critical of that, however I am producing 15 or more shows weekly and selling them. I do not want to get in trouble with the "copy-cops" at all. As earlier stated, I have been shopped at least twice. For us here in the US, this is a Federal crime and although it is highly unlikely that anything would happen, with my luck, I could get life without parole...

lt

[alrobin]

.......

For us here in the US, this is a Federal crime and although it is highly unlikely that anything would happen, with my luck, I could get life without parole...

Larry,

Just think of how much time you would have then for making AV's!

I sympathize with your desire to eliminate all legal risk. But I still think that if no one knows there is an underlying musical selection, because it is too muted to hear, then this case would be somewhat of an "academic" technicality.

However, if exact registration with the music is not necessary, it is already possible to set up a show, giving PTE the precise instructions for each transition, and run it in parallel with a CD playing in the background, and without including any music inside the sequence "exe" file. The user might have to "fiddle" a bit to ensure a close "sync", but this would still be better than not having any music accompaniment at all.

[lathompson]

Larry,

I sympathize with your desire to eliminate all legal risk. But I still think that if no one knows there is an underlying musical selection, because it is too muted to hear, then this case would be somewhat of an "academic" technicality.

Yes, that's true. but there is no time saved. It still requires dealing with the music instead of telling the program "I want 3min 24 sec length". Fast, simple.

However, if exact registration with the music is not necessary, it is already possible to set up a show, giving PTE the precise instructions for each transition, and run it in parallel with a CD playing in the background, and without including any music inside the sequence "exe" file. The user might have to "fiddle" a bit to ensure a close "sync", but this would still be better than not having any music accompaniment at all.

And yes, this has always been the choice. This is not really a problem, just a fantasy request. I'm sure nobody else would find this to be of much benefit, but by throwing it out there, it is possible that more PTEers might have seen a binefit and wanted it too. Oh, well.... You know, Igor does so much work to satisfy the needs of so many. I just gave it a shot.

lt

[alrobin]

Larry,

Don't get me wrong - I'm with you on this, as I have often tried to think of some way to automate a CD so that we wouldn't have to rely on copied music.

For my purposes, I would like to have the sequence somehow synched throughout to the CD, but I appreciate your desire to automate the basic process in some way and incorporate into PTE the ability to at least start a CD and sync with the beginning of the sequence. The existing ability to provide PTE with the total time of the show, based on the total time of the CD selection, as indicated by John, could then be used to provide an approximate synchronization.

Even this much would be useful, but as you indicate, it would be up to Igor to study it and indicate whether there is anything he could do to implement it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Igor is planning to change the method of timing of non-synched shows so that it is accurate over all pc's, similar to shows which follow an actual music timeline. In fact, a timeline is now available in v.5 for non-synched shows, even if there is no music backing it up.

An alternate course of action would be to negotiate with the music industry to ultimately gain acceptance for the use of music selections or portions thereof in support of the themes of our AV productions. I don't know which alternative would be the most difficult.

[lathompson]

An alternate course of action would be to negotiate with the music industry to ultimately gain acceptance for the use of music selections or portions thereof in support of the themes of our AV productions. I don't know which alternative would be the most difficult.

In this regard, the DWF forums (Digital Wedding Photographer Fourm) has been working for about a year now, using it's power of influence with a membership of thousands of professional photographers to get this implemented. Here is the story:

http://www.digitalweddingforum.com/ubbthre...&page=0#1109842

Hopefully, this will help the situation... The music industry as a whole, considers the syncing of music to be of so little value, it ignores our individual requests for a solution. They just don't give a damn. In the meantime, 99% of my clients (mostly consumer-level clients) don't give a damn either... they want popular music with their slideshows. It would sure be nice to give that to them.

lt

[Ken Cox]

"they want popular music with their slideshows"

THE obvious solution then is to buy them the popular music cd from "TIME LIFE" and include the cost in your musicless shows and they can play the music till the cows come home

ken

[alrobin]

In this regard, the DWF forums (Digital Wedding Photographer Fourm) has been working for about a year now, using it's power of influence with a membership of thousands of professional photographers to get this implemented. Here is the story:

http://www.digitalweddingforum.com/ubbthre...&page=0#1109842

Hopefully, this will help the situation... The music industry as a whole, considers the syncing of music to be of so little value, it ignores our individual requests for a solution. They just don't give a damn. In the meantime, 99% of my clients (mostly consumer-level clients) don't give a damn either... they want popular music with their slideshows. It would sure be nice to give that to them.

lt

Larry,

This is a very significant first step - thanks for the info.

So far we have nothing like this in Canada, but with this development, an arrangement like this should be feasible here too. It will be interesting to follow this story and find out how satisfactory it turns out to be.