PTE5 Documentation

[leonard]

As a relative newcomer and strictly an amateur in these matters I find it difficult to understand how to use PTE5's new features. I simply do not know how to use Pan and Zoom.

It seems to me that what this software, and version 4, lacks is a Manual or User Guide.

Are there any plans to produce this in parallel with the software and will it be available with the full commercial release? I would assume that the authorship would remain with the software company who would be responsible for the maintenace of it.

leonard

[alrobin]

It seems to me that what this software, and version 4, lacks is a Manual or User Guide.

Firstly, version 4 does not offer pan & zoom.

Secondly, have you had a look at my free basic "PTE-101" tutorial for versions "pre-v.5" on Beechbrook?

http://www.beechbrook.com/pte/index.asp?ca...yid=&page=9

[leonard]

Thanks Al, the pint I was making is neither PTE4 or 5 have adequate documentation.

Thanks for the link, I wasn't aware of the existence of this site.

I'll have a look and comment later.

Has your effort been accepted as the 'benchmark'?

leonard

[leonard]

I've had a quick look at your tutorial and note this is for PTE v4.

I think that tutorials do play a useful part in understanding any subject, but I much prefer a manual supplemented if necessary with a tutorial.

To return to my original question, is there a ma nual in the pipeline, a question that really needs Igor to answer.

leonard

[thedom]

Hi Leonard,

All the documentation about PTE I'm aware of is hosted on my site.

See link in my signature.

Hope you like to read.

Seriously, there are manuals (most of them in pdf format) and videos tutorials (mainly in flash).

Good luck.

[leonard]

Hi Thedom,

Thanks for your input - this will keep busy for quite some time!

leonard

[mhwarner]

Leonard:

While extensive documentation and lots of tutorials supplied by the developer imight be preferable for a software product, please do consider that this wonderful piece of software costs about $24 US for a LIFETIME license. And also consider that the developer spends most of his time updating and expanding the features available --based largely on the input and feedback from the software's users here in this forum. There is a help file supplied with the product and many users in this forum have generously shared their experiences and developed tutorials for P2E. I personally would prefer to have the features constantly upgraded than have a large manual which I may never read. For the average user of the product, it has been fairly intuitive to use. With version 5, of course, there are many new things to learn. But most of the time, if there is something specific you want to do or create, you can search here and find the answer as to how someone else has already done it. Or, you can always post your question and within a few hours, someone here will post some helpful instructions or point you to a past thread or give you a link to a tutorial. I would personally much rather have that than to pay $300US for software with an extensive printed or on-line manual from a company that provides little or no technical support on the use of the product itself (for which there may be numerous third-party "manuals" written which cost even more $$). Just my 2 cents.

[Tomuk]

Leonard:

While extensive documentation and lots of tutorials supplied by the developer imight be preferable for a software product, please do consider that this wonderful piece of software costs about $24 US for a LIFETIME license. And also consider that the developer spends most of his time updating and expanding the features available --based largely on the input and feedback from the software's users here in this forum. There is a help file supplied with the product and many users in this forum have generously shared their experiences and developed tutorials for P2E. I personally would prefer to have the features constantly upgraded than have a large manual which I may never read. For the average user of the product, it has been fairly intuitive to use. With version 5, of course, there are many new things to learn. But most of the time, if there is something specific you want to do or create, you can search here and find the answer as to how someone else has already done it. Or, you can always post your question and within a few hours, someone here will post some helpful instructions or point you to a past thread or give you a link to a tutorial. I would personally much rather have that than to pay $300US for software with an extensive printed or on-line manual from a company that provides little or no technical support on the use of the product itself (for which there may be numerous third-party "manuals" written which cost even more $$). Just my 2 cents.

Hear,hear Mary,

Very well said, Sometimes it pains me when people want a magic button and someone to provide all the answers, that way everything is done for them.

As creating pictures and making slide shows from them is my passion and my hobby, I would much rarther strive to work on problems and have the satisfaction of being able to say"I created that", Igor and the team provide us with the tool (and what a tool) but they don't produce sequences for us.

Having said that, it's always nice to have the members of this forum to provide ideas,critique and advise.

Tom.

[ronwil]

I agree with Mary and Tom. A number of members of the forum have pointed me in the right direction when I have sought help and I have learnt from answers to questions put by others. I too have endeavoured to input some help whenever I could.

Ron [uK]

[Ken Cox]

this program changes so rapidly that it is nearly impossible to write a proper manual

what is imperative tho' is to read all threads [RAT] in all sections not just the ones that appeal to your interests

when ver 5 beta came out members had wrote manuals within a day that would get one started as well as Igor wrote one with the the beta that is still a valid document

as members learn how to do things they advise the forum

ronwil had a show up in less than 15 days

quote

May 8 2006, 04:31 AM

Having completed now the conversion of an analogue sequence into PTE v 4.47 for a memorial presentation tomorrow afternoon, I have started to experiment with v.5.0 beta#2. However, I am finding it difficult making any progress as we appear to be woefuly short of instructions. Lin has provided a useful introductory tutorial so that one can get the feel of the new programme, but all the demo sequences appear to have been made by members with far more knowledge than seems to be available "in print". For instance my panoramas operate only from "right to left", my zooms only "in" and how do you make an add-on image, such as a title, operate independently of the main image. Am I to assume that those of you who have been successful in mastering this beta find it similar in its application to other software which you may have used.

I appreciate that this is a beta and I know I am in my dotage, but I do like to keep abreast of developments.

Ron [uK]

ken

[e.b.west]

Hear,hear Mary,

Very well said, Sometimes it pains me when people want a magic button and someone to provide all the answers, that way everything is done for them.

As creating pictures and making slide shows from them is my passion and my hobby, I would much rarther strive to work on problems and have the satisfaction of being able to say"I created that", Igor and the team provide us with the tool (and what a tool) but they don't produce sequences for us.

Having said that, it's always nice to have the members of this forum to provide ideas,critique and advise.

Tom.

That's a rather harsh reply. I think all he was asking about was if there was any kind of a manual, not for a "magic button". He seemed to be very pleased with the DOMs response. I don't post much but I do read a lot, since December of 2002, and once I found out where to look, I did. As leonard seems to be doing.

[leonard]

Hi All,

It is pretty obvious to me from these recent replies that the long serving membership have learnt a lot from their own endeavours and the helpful suggestions of others. Most of you have been 'at it' for a number of years and have grown up with the product, no doubt since its inception. I also don't doubt that the 'club' is used to this way of working because it is their HOBBY, and that the combination of club and Igor and his team is self serving and prefer to work this way. So be it.

Now, try to put yourself in the position of the newcomer. He buys this software, because of a recommendation and finds it hard to understand some of the concepts and manner of working. There is no documentation as such and spends a lot of time and effort fumbling around in the hope of getting it to work.

He is used to getting a manual/user guide and from experience he knows that the combination of software and hard copy is sufficient for him to make reasonable progress. Only occasionally does he have to refer to a forum to solve some obscure issue.

Not so PTE (or is it P2E). In order to get to grips he (or she) must now search through umpteen threads on a Forum in the hope that someone else has asked the Q and got an answer, or worked it out for themselves.

I agree the cost of this program is fabulous value for money. But how much time and effort (not costed) must be spent in trying to make progress. Personally, I would rather spend money on a well documented and proven program than spend my time (many hours a day) reading forum threads/topics in order to keep up to make progress.

I will persevere and no doubt after a lot of wasted effort, time and money I will make some progress. But from my own personal experience it is not the right way to do things.

I thank those of you who have found the time and interest to try to put me on the right path. I have now collected enough ideas/links to keep me going for some time.

I still don't know whether Igor (or any other author) is going to produce a manual. And don't tell me it's not necessary.

leonard

[dagrace]

I'll weigh in here...

I'm a relative newbie (I have several posts, but I have relatively little time on the product, and I'm not in an AV club like so many of the veterans) so nearly every time I log on to PTE, I have to download a new version and sort of re-learn or at least remember how to do stuff.

I have found the tutorials and pdf manuals invaluable. Starting with Al's PTE 101, that got me started. Since then (back in the version 3 days) I've found (at least for my learning style) that "doing" is the best teacher. I can see a great technique in someone's show, but unless I have a need for it, even if it came with perfect instructions, I'll forget how to use it if I don't try it.

There are many very good tutorials that demonstrate the Pan & Zoom features. And, again, for my style of learning, I've found that just watching it isn't enough. I have to go DO it. So having a manual wouldn't help me that much. Yes, it's convenient to have a "dictionary" to look up the proper spelling (or even use) of a word, but having a dictionary doesn't make me a writer. Writing makes me a writer. I have loads of Photoshop documentation, and every once in a while, I can find what I need in the doc. But when I really get stuck, I call my friend.

This is one of the most helpful, friendly forums I've ever been a part of. Answers come in minutes or hours, not days. I don't discount Leonard's desire to have a manual, but I disagree with the statement

"no doubt after a lot of wasted effort, time and money I will make some progress."

I think the tutorials, pdfs, and "just doing it" got / get me very far, very fast.

[leonard]

Hi dagrace,

Thanks for your input. I'll start by saying that we all have our own way of learning and doing things. Personally, I think life is too short to spend endless hours fumbling in the dark hoping against hope that I can find the light switch.

I am interested in your statements:

1. "And, again, for my style of learning, I've found that just watching it isn't enough. I have to go DO it. So having a manual wouldn't help me that much.",

followed by:

2. "I have found the tutorials and pdf manuals invaluable."

Incidentally, I assume these were prepared by the 'membership', which begs the question - have they received Igor's approval. For all I know there may be umpteen 'manuals' out there which contradict one another to some degree.

My point exactly - manuals are invaluable. Personally I find that tutorials are only 'nice to have', and usually they are badly prepared, and very amateurish. It takes real skill and not a little experience to put together an interesting and informative video tutorial. In addition they have to be displayed on a screen which is not exactly ideal for concentration. Whereas a hard copy can act as a bible, is portable and can even be read in bed if one is so inclined.

In my experience, the user guide/manual author and software designer have to ensure that the end user fully understands what the product does, how it does it and how the user may put it to use. That task is not easy I am the first to agree, and good authors are difficult to find. Most designers haven't the writing skills, and management consider it a waste of time and money. And it can be an expensive business, but can pay dividends in the long run.

I fully agree with you that practice makes perfect, and only by doing things will the processes become second nature. But I stand by my earlier comments that an approved manual is vital. At the very least it will ensure that everyone sings from the same hymn sheet. It also helps to ensure that control procedures are followed and more importantly properly documented.

I'm sure you are right when you say "This is one of the most helpful, friendly forums I've ever been a part of. Answers come in minutes or hours, not days."

It is a good job that so many enthusiatic and dedicated followers have the time to spare for their hobby. I hope for everyone's sake this effort is forthcoming over the next few years as v5 gains full commercial release in 200?

leonard

[Ken Cox]

Leonard

if somebody makes an incorrect statement in the op inst's they have written, Igor or other members quickly point out the error.

we learn by doing

ken

[JohnFeg]

Hi dagrace,

Thanks for your input. I'll start by saying that we all have our own way of learning and doing things. Personally, I think life is too short to spend endless hours fumbling in the dark hoping against hope that I can find the light switch.

leonard

Leonard,

Please allow me to suggest an analogy.

If you wanted to take up oil painting, how useful, do you think, a manual for you box of paints would be?

PTE, in my view, is artistic rather than merely technical. I do not believe that any two people use the application in exactly the same way. There are so many means of skinning a cat, as it were.

Gaining familiarisation with the "controls" is not that difficult, but, it's a hell of a lot of fun. The real pleasure, however, starts when you start to explore what it is possible to create using this great program.

Best wishes & Persevere!

John

[Lin Evans]

Hi Leonard,

Let me just say a few things which may or may not be helpful.

Obviously, you speak English and quite well. But let's say you developed a product like PicturesToExe and decided to sell it world wide. Let's say I lived in Russia and purchased your product and it was still in beta. Let's further say that you were nice enough to let me and any others actually download and use this product which was quite useful while it was still in beta format but that I was unhappy because I didn't have a product manual. So you write a very detailed manual but it's in English and I don't understand a word of it. What shall you do?

Do you "try" to publish this manual in Russian? Do you pay many people to translate it into perhaps two dozen languages? But if you do, then to recover your investment and continuing costs of updated articles you must increase the price of your product drastically or otherwise why would you be in business?

Such is the nature of this enterprise. Volunteers have done a great deal of translation from Russian to a variety of languages and volunteers have written excellent tutorials and manuals which are peer reviewed. It's an iterative process. Igor has done a commendable job of learning a foreign language and this forum is a perfect example as it's conducted nearly 100% in English - a very foreign tongue for Igor and his associates.

Of course there is no written manual for the Beta - after all it's a work in progress. It makes zero sense to try to produce a manual for a product which is in the process of being developed and perfected. When version 5 is released, several of us will conspire to create a user's guide, manual and tutorials which will cover every facet of normal use and even esoteric uses - in fact there have been a number of these as you have seen on the Dom's site.

The manual which Al wrote for version 4x is an extremely good reference which is very detailed and specific about every facet of the released version of PicturesToExe. As someone who has a very, very large collection of software ranging from single copies costing thousands of dollars (I'm not exaggerating) to very inexpensive software such as PicturesToExe, I'm in a position to comment about the state of the software industry and what is and is not available in terms of documentation. For the most part, the software industry has moved away from printed material because it's too difficult to update and maintain in a timely manner and printing adds a great deal to the costs. Typically today if you get anything other than on-line help it's on a CD which you have the option to print if you want to take the time and expense, but in the majority of cases you get very little.

PicturesToExe is one of the true values in software I've encountered. As mentioned before, the users have a very special relationship with the author and their input is carefully considered and often finds its way into the product. Frankly, I don't know of another company in the presentation slideshow software business which is even remotely close and I have and use nearly every major presentation slideshow software available for the Windows environment.

I suppose my bottom line is that you are always welcome to ask any question about how to do something and you will get a speedy answer here. Both the users and Igor and his associates go out of their way to be helpful but you do have to do a bit of research to learn the finer points of PicturesToExe. It's extremely powerful but also extremely easy to use once you get past the small learning curve.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi dagrace,

Thanks for your input. I'll start by saying that we all have our own way of learning and doing things. Personally, I think life is too short to spend endless hours fumbling in the dark hoping against hope that I can find the light switch.

I am interested in your statements:

1. "And, again, for my style of learning, I've found that just watching it isn't enough. I have to go DO it. So having a manual wouldn't help me that much.",

followed by:

2. "I have found the tutorials and pdf manuals invaluable."

Incidentally, I assume these were prepared by the 'membership', which begs the question - have they received Igor's approval. For all I know there may be umpteen 'manuals' out there which contradict one another to some degree.

My point exactly - manuals are invaluable. Personally I find that tutorials are only 'nice to have', and usually they are badly prepared, and very amateurish. It takes real skill and not a little experience to put together an interesting and informative video tutorial. In addition they have to be displayed on a screen which is not exactly ideal for concentration. Whereas a hard copy can act as a bible, is portable and can even be read in bed if one is so inclined.

In my experience, the user guide/manual author and software designer have to ensure that the end user fully understands what the product does, how it does it and how the user may put it to use. That task is not easy I am the first to agree, and good authors are difficult to find. Most designers haven't the writing skills, and management consider it a waste of time and money. And it can be an expensive business, but can pay dividends in the long run.

I fully agree with you that practice makes perfect, and only by doing things will the processes become second nature. But I stand by my earlier comments that an approved manual is vital. At the very least it will ensure that everyone sings from the same hymn sheet. It also helps to ensure that control procedures are followed and more importantly properly documented.

I'm sure you are right when you say "This is one of the most helpful, friendly forums I've ever been a part of. Answers come in minutes or hours, not days."

It is a good job that so many enthusiatic and dedicated followers have the time to spare for their hobby. I hope for everyone's sake this effort is forthcoming over the next few years as v5 gains full commercial release in 200?

leonard

[davegee]

It occurs to me that with all of the talent available at this forum, definitive tutorials on the methodology for PZR could be PINNED to the top of the forum. This would save newcomers the job of having to search every topic for hints and tips.

Some of us read every topic while others just want the info.

Similar definitive tutorials on other aspects of the software could also be pinned as they are produced.

DaveG

[leonard]

Hi Everybody,

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your time and interest in my rather dry subject.

I get the message(s) loud and very clear - be prepared for plenty of DIY and have lots of patience. Don't be surprised if one needs to refer to the Forum on umpteen occasions, but expect to be treated with courtesy and sympathy. The Forum is capable of answering all your questions and is used extensively and regularly by dedicated hobbyists who know the subject inside out. Documentation on a wide range of issues is available, generally speaking, although some detective work is necessary to trace there whereabouts especially if you are a newcomer.

I wish you all well in your endeavours, and have a Happy Xmas and Prosperous New Year.

regards

leonard

[wideangle]

This is provoking a lot of discussion, with strong views at both extremes!

Those of you who have been around a long time and have seen the program develop and know it like the back of your hand don't want a manual, while newcomers do tend to get started OK, but find the second stage of learning quite slow.

For a beginner, what are the effects of the tick boxes Main page, Transparent to selection, Perspective correction for zoom all about? What is the difference between the 3 options in Mode? The idea of trawling through the forum when you are a beginner in the middle of trying to produce a new work of art is not really an option - you want some guidance at your fingertips.

I think the answer here is a compromise. The Help option within PTE surely is the best option, although I realise that at the moment there are other priorities for Igor and his colleagues. At the moment it is hardly even a skeleton Help system. It needs a short paragraph summary of each option on each screen display, to explain the basic function, no more - just enough to allow the beginner to pursue it and investigate that option.

[leonard]

Hi wideangle,

Thanks, the discussion needed a fresh perspective and you've provided it.

Surely there can be no argument against this proposal - it hits the nail on the head, should be fairly simple, straightforward and easy to implement. It can be added to progressively as the design proceeds to completion.

Would Igor object to 'one of our experts' providing the draft material for his vetting and then for a member of his team to incorporate it into the Help element?

How about Advanced Member putting this idea forward to Igor ASAP?

leonard

[alrobin]

Would Igor object to 'one of our experts' providing the draft material for his vetting and then for a member of his team to incorporate it into the Help element?

Of course not - Igor is going to take all the help on this that he can get. However, this is not the time, as Igor is very pressed right now to solve certain very tricky technical problems, and we would not want to bother him with a lot of politics and "nice-to-have's".

How about Advanced Member putting this idea forward to Igor ASAP?

I think you missed the point. With v.5 in a preliminary beta stage, it will be difficult to find anyone willing to put in the time necessary to keep such a "help" menu up to date, and also Igor to vet it, and incorporate it into new betas as they are produced, some of which might negate the very items that are being updated. And this would make it even more confusing for newbies like yourself. Besides it is difficult enough for someone whose native tongue is not English (or French, or Spanish, or ...) to concentrate on producing a world-class piece of software, let alone, at the same time, produce "help" material in all of these different foreign languages.

I'm not trying to be negative here just for the sake of it - just practical.

We are all learning the new v.5 - every time a new beta comes out, it's back to the drawing board for some of us to test out various features, and find out how to use the new ones. There is no time to produce "help" information for anyone. This is the way the "beta" system works.

You have to realize that this is a beta version - for the sole purpose of putting it through it's paces to make sure that everything is working properly. If it can be used satisfactorily to produce some shows in the meantime, that is a bonus.

You have been around the Forum for a year now, and "wideangle" since May - maybe you should have been following more closely each posting on v.5 as it was published, and learning gradually along with the rest of us. And, if you have been following the postings since then, I think you will agree that some of us have been doing a pretty good job, through tutorials, demos, and immediately reporting our findings, of keeping the rest of the readership abreast of changes and ways of implementing them. And answering specific questions at the same time. I'm sorry if you feel that this has been inadequate.

[RonH]

Leonard

I know what you mean. I have two friends in my Photographic Club who would really appreciate a manual because they are not even on the internet! One of them says he has managed for 93 years without the ‘net’ and at his age would find it confusing. I downloaded P2E, bought its ‘key’ for him and with the help of Alrobin’s tutorial on CD he produced his first programme within a few weeks.

I understand why P2E doesn’t have a manual but, from my point of view, I find the Forum and its friendly ‘club’ advice much more helpful. I have no problem electronically searching for information which has previously been posted and once I find the answer it really is lodged in my memory.

The only slight stumbling block to me has been terminology; once I know what I’m looking for and what the ‘experts’ call that operation (i.e. to daisy-chain or to piggy-back another programme) It’s easy to find.

Wideangle is right about the Help which often is no help at all but if my experience with Adobe Auditions is anything to go by, Adobe’s extensive help file is only of limited value and I would love to have a friendly Forum to ask what is meant by…

Several of my friends have downloaded tutorials from Wnsoft (which also had an accompanying script), printed them out and from the information, have produced programmes which have been ‘spring boards’ (alongside experience) towards excellent AV programmes. And let’s face it; I have seen hundreds of beautiful AVs produced on P2E so it must be possible.

I appreciate how you might feel that some of the contributors have been rather negative towards what is a reasonable request but I hope you can see the difficulties. I can’t think of another ’strand’ which has caused this much controversy. Stick with it Leonard – it really is worthwhile!

[leonard]

Hi Al,

No, I've not been following progress or tried to learn as it proceeds, I've neither the inclination, time nor the expertise - some of us do have other tasks and interests to keep us busy.

I've recently come on the scene because I thought, probably wrongly, that having reached beta 8 the development would be largely complete and by now perhaps, just perhaps, there would be some spare capacity on both sides to do this important work. Clearly, you as one of the major players in this scenario, strongly disagree. Perhaps you expect there to be several more beta versions. And yet it's not all that long ago when Igor publicly announced that the FINAL version would become available last September.

I'm absolutely sure that those of you who have played a major part in this beta process have contributed significantly in this important phase. I'm equally sure that the end product will be much better because of that.

Enough is enough. My head aches from banging it against a brick wall. I've now decided to withdraw from this debate. After all, time spent reading and commenting on my unreasonably ideas must be taking up everyone's valuable time that could be better utilised elsewhere.

Perhaps when the dust has finally settled, say early summer 2007, I will return to see whether any progress has been and if not go round the buoy again.

Finally, I have little doubt that unless someone grasps this nettle, the Help file will no better than that currently supplied with v4, and that is now at v4.48! And this product deserves a better fate.

leonard

Hi RonH,

Thanks for you encouragement. I wish I'd read it before penning my LAST message.

leonard

[Tomuk]

Hi! All,

I have been following this thread with great interest and it seem to me that the answer for the short term and maybe even the final solution is right under our noses….

The users with the most knowledge and experience have already written comprehensive Tutorials and produced AVi Video’s that give visual aid, these have been posted on to Dom’s site and made available to all, would it be to much to ask for a link to this site is placed under the Help menu, then we would have an unlimited supply of help and information at our finger tips, I do not know what the legal side as far as Igor and Team would be, but I think it’s an idea that can be expanded upon, can anybody suggest something simpler.

Tom