not your usual icon

[LumenLux]

Long long ago . . . an icon I created for a PTE show, suddenly appeared as the icon for my C drive. (I think it was "C.") Since that time I have added another drive and re-installed a bunch of stuff. Lots of "stuff" on my computer. My hard disks are: 8 gig C, 30 gig partitioned as D & F, 80 gig partitioned as E & G. Often when using Explorer, my PC freezes when I try to access drive G. It just so happens that the aforementioned icon is now (for many months) showing up as the icon for drive G. Is there any possible connection with this icon for the drive and the problems with my G portion of the drive? Can someone tell me how to remove the icon as a designation for the drive? It really is a great icon - but I've had my fill.

[Kurt S]

You might try deleting the "ShellIconCache" file found in the Windows folder, then rebooting. That might restore the correct icon to the drive but it won't help with the accessing problem.

[quietstorm]

Looks like you have a "little" problem Sir!!

Look at the following link and it might help you out:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...B;en-us;q132668

If not, I will "scratch thy bald head harder!"

Bart

[LumenLux]

Thank you Kurt and Bart for the quick response. I'm glad Bart that you are still here. I know your own great web site takes a lot time.

I will follow the instructions from both of you. I am only having a little trouble deciding who's bald head I am supposed to scratch.

[nobeefstu]

Which Windows OS do you have installed on your PC ?

Something simple to try ( if you havent already tried ) :

First try just changing the current COLOR DEPTH of your Desktop Settings to 256 color or 16 color . Reboot. Once Rebooted ... verify if the corrupted icon is/is not still displayed. (You may want to even ScanDisc your Drive Files) Change back your COLOR DEPTH to your own desired setting. Reboot.

Also, If you use or have TWEAK UI ... run the ICON REPAIR tool . There are also some free Icon Repair Tools available.

Try these simple methods ... before doing anything drastic. Sometimes they work.

I will keep scratching my head too

Also ... just do a quick check of the ROOT of your DRIVE and verify that you dont have any lingering AUTORUN.INF with Icon labeling laying about.

[LumenLux]

The OS on this subject PC is Win98 SE. Progress on this problem has been limited today. Every direction relates to everything else. I have been rebooting and scandisking etc ever since the first post of the icon problem. Actually the icon became an issue as an aside as I am trying to determine why a new Adaptec "fire wire" adapter card and an un-related SCSII adapter will apparently only run in certain PCI slots! The merry go round began. Thank you for your input. The autorun.inf may turn out to be a factor. I did (do?) have an early version of your AutoLink for PTE running at one time on my root drive. Hmm. Thanks for the additional lead.

[Guest guru]

I am trying to determine why a new Adaptec "fire wire" adapter card and an un-related SCSII adapter will apparently only run in certain PCI slots!

Hi Bob!

Don't worry about these problems, they are quite normal in Windows OS's.

I own a professional audio card (Emagic Audiowerk 8 channels) that demands to be inserted only in a certain slot to be installed. And I met two identical machines (with a very similar serial number) whose one didn't work if I placed the network card in the same slot as other one...

[Ken Cox]

you have an xp system as well so here is a source for both

xp is a bit different than for win 98 - -xp will not work on win 98 and if you install win98's on xp you will have to uninstall it before you install xp's

http://www.bondgroup.net/TweakUI.htm

========

http://malektips.envprogramming.com/98tww0017.html

Windows 98 - TweakUI

Win98 Tweak UI - Fix icon display problems (#17)

Sometimes, when running Win98, Explorer may show incorrect icons. In some instances, the icons on your taskbar/toolbar may be messed up, and you can fix that problem by right-clicking and selecting "refresh" (see the previous tip in MalekTips - Win98 - Taskbar/Toolbar). Sometimes, though, this will not work.

=========

http://www.durhampc-usersclub.on.ca/brife/...rife200008.html

ken

[LumenLux]

Gee Ken, you keep mighty good track of things. Thank you for being so organized.

Now I am pleased to report progress. That is, the source of the wrong icon coming up was indeed, as nobeefstu had suggested, an autorun.inf in the root of my G drive. So THAT icon issue is solved. While everyone is so hot and helpful, let see if we can expand the local knowledge base a bit further -

I have now determined that some of the "freezes" of the G drive may not be total freezes after all. It seems that G drive has many many PTE shows, that is .exe files with either the PTE icon, or custom icon by the show creators. When using Explorer, it sometimes takes so long to display files, that it seems the machine has frozen. I have observed that the other drive (F) which also has dozens of PTE (.exe) files, also takes VERY long to display the detailed contents in Explorer. Does anyone know if either the icons or the large number of .exe files causes the slowdown? I use McAfee virus software resident on the machine. Does that have anything to do with the large number of exe files being perhaps a problem?

[nobeefstu]

I believe alot of your " Delay" issues is most likely as you have described. Too many files in same the place

It is genereally good practice not to have large amounts ( especially large amounts of large sized files) in the same path location. Windows Explorer is reading all available data of each file before it displays it. Especially in "Full Detail View" and when the Icon Data is only in 32x32 format ... this format has to be converted to 16x16. Many programs do submit/include multiple icon data to avoid some of the conversion problems ... I suspect many PTE shows dont supply both formats.

As a TEST : Create groups of new folders and place the EXE shows inside them ... thus eliminating massive amounts. Try your EXPLORER in different FILE VIEWS ... to see if the "Delay" behavior lessens. I myself, personally avoid putting to many of any files in the ROOT of any DRIVE.

Also ... using any VIRUS PROGRAM ... will tend to delay the total process time ... especally exe files.

[RayPar]

I will keep scratching my head too

Is yours "bald" too?

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that one.

[alrobin]

Bob,

It might help if you defrag your drives - I was having a problem with the processor running at 100% capacity all the time, and slowing everything down, and when I de-fragmented my drives, the problem disappeared.

[nobeefstu]

Ray ...

Mine is starting on its way ... maybe from too much head scatching and thinking ?

[think(box)]

Gee Ken, you keep mighty good track of things.  Thank you for being so organized.

Hello Bob, Ken,

That is hilarious! I couldn't stop laughing when I read it.

Bob, I am sorry that I didn't read your post about icons any earlier. I have encountered that problem countless times and could have immediately told you what to do. When you have a valid Autorun.inf in any root directory and the icon to which it points is valid, then when Windows starts it assumes a removable device and makes Explorer display that icon for that device. It won't go away until you both delete Autorun.inf and restart system or refresh icon cache. Anyone looking for a great icon builder that can coincidentally also refresh the icon cache, check out Axialis Icon Workshop (not free). I wouldn't get it for refreshing the cache - get it for building icons to use in P2E shows!:

http://www.axialis.com/axicons/index.html

I learned more about Autorun than I ever cared to know at microsoft.com when I was figuring out how to make a P2E show CD have an Autorun feature that works across ALL windows platforms. Windows XP wouldn't work when others would. With microsoft.com's Autorun spec I got past all platform troubles, though in finding this help I found it confusing that they have Autoplay to try to mimic Apple, opening files intelligently on removble media for a change.

And on your other subject "Windoze" being slow on large directories, I have some experience and test results that may help. In making mega shows I have of course placed thousands of JPEGs in single directories. There are many sources of delay when you do this, but it *does* work acceptably if you so choose. You were given good advice to keep the file count down though.

Here are some measurements on my 400MHz P2 Win98SE system, all made both after copying files and after a restart in case that matters (it didn't), all in FAT32 file system (XP's NTFS is different):

Case 1: 8,700 JPEGS in one directory (about 633MB total space)

This takes from 2-5 seconds to display when I click on folder to open in Windoze Explorer. In the past this has been as long as 20 seconds.

Case 2: 8,700 .EXE files in one directory by renaming JPEGs (freeware Bulk Rename Utility is great!)

This takes from 2-5 seconds to display when I click on folder in Windoze Explorer and these .exe files have no icon within. There is nothing magic about .exe file type except that it is registered as "Application" in Windoze.

Case 3: FOLDER with 1,286 .EXE files WITH icon in app files for about 90% of them, 1.23GB total space

This takes just under 1 second to display when I click on folder in Windoze Explorer.

Case 4: ROOT directory with 1,286 .EXE files WITH icon in app files for about 90% of them, 1.23GB space

This takes just under 1 second to display when I click on folder in Windoze Explorer.

I think the historical issue with large file count in root dir was with FAT file system under either Win 3.1 or Win95.

LARGE FILE COUNT DELAYS:

In Win98, Win98SE (no others tested) once you've deleted hundreds (or more) files whether or not in same folder, things like deleting or renaming slow down dramatically. This is a known "feature" that Microsoft has chosen not to fix. To work around you do Ctrl-Alt-Delete ONCE, click on Explorer, click on End Task and then the shutdown screen appears. Click on Cancel, then wait until hard drive activity subsides. This restarts Explorer and empties the "Undo" list that had been getting oversized. A restart of the system will fix the delay "feature" as well. One caution: Most of your lower-right taskbar icons go away when you restart Explorer, even though their applications are still running. You may find this inconvenient. They will be back the next time you restart the system.

Copying folders with multi-thousand file count takes much longer than copying several folders that together have the same file count and size. This is because Windoze is slow at manipulating large directory files due to FAT and FAT32 file system characteristics.

Cheers!

[LumenLux]

think(box) Bill - what do you mean "hillarious"? - This is serious stuff. Do you realize how much good info you guys are trying to cram into my head in such short time!

Thanks to everybody, I think the icon problem is under control.

Now Bill, your Case studies #1 - #4 are causing a slight resurgence of the need to scratcha bald head again. My PC (PIII - 750 mhz, 768mb ram) doesn't even come close to the directory performance you recorded. I am talking directories with 300 files tops, not 8700 - and still my display times with Explorer are frequently (always?) longer than what you experience. I am now wondering if my aged graphics card could even be the culprit?

In Win98, Win98SE (no others tested) once you've deleted hundreds (or more) files whether or not in same folder, things like deleting or renaming slow down dramatically. This is a known "feature" that Microsoft has chosen not to fix. To work around you do Ctrl-Alt-Delete ONCE, click on Explorer, click on End Task and then the shutdown screen appears. Click on Cancel, then wait until hard drive activity subsides. This restarts Explorer and empties the "Undo" list that had been getting oversized. A restart of the system will fix the delay "feature" as well.

This is a nifty trick that I had not heard. In fact, I think I had been taught that the only two tasks that I could not shut down were systray and explorer. So I will now try your trick as I have noticed the problem that you describe. Now do you want to tell me what explorer is vs. exploring is when they appear in the task box?

[think(box)]

The Explorer vs. Exploring question is easy - "Explorer" is the "parent" that closes all others: In the "Close Program" dialog box, for every instance of "Windows Explorer" you will see an entry saying "Exploring - C:\Windows" where C:\Windows is an example of what folder you may have open in that Windows Explorer instance. You can open as many Windows Explorers as you need. "Internet Explorer" is also an Explorer instance, only Microsoft chose to display the web site you are exploring, then "Microsoft Internet Explorer", in the "Close Program" dialog box. They did this because the box doesn't have a large enough text window to show anything else after the big, long name "Microsoft Internet Explorer".

Any Windows Explorer or Internet Explorer window may be transformed into the other by simply clicking "View" menu, then "Toolbars" and/or "Explorer Bar" and selecting things you want or don't want, like "Standard Buttons" or "Address Bar" in "Toolbars", and "Folders" in "Explorer Bar". It's so easy to just start a Windows Explorer rather than transforming an Internet Explorer that you never bother (press and hold the "Windows" (flag) keyboard key between "Ctrl" and "Alt" keys, and then press "E" key for a new Windows Explorer, or "F" key for "Find Files", or "Break" key for "System Properties" (Device Manager), etc.)

Sidebar: Wnsoft's WinNavigator is a nice alternative or supplement to Windows Explorer that offers some nice improvements. Windows Explorer shows two window panes (pains), the left being the folder list and the right being the contents of folder selected, consisting of files and/or folders. WinNavigator shows two complete views into your drives and files, with folders and files navigable in each.

In Windows Explorer to move or copy a file you have to open the destination folder's parent folder on the left pane by clicking the "+"(s) to expand upper folders. Either before or after that you have to click your way in left pane to the parent folder containing the source file(s)/folders(s) to move/copy and click to select the parent source folder on left so that its contents are visible in right pane. Finally you can select file(s)/folders(s) to copy/move in the right and drag/drop (best to use right-mouse button so you can cancel for oops wrong folder rather than "undo") and you're done. The Edit menu, "Undo" is handy for goofs. This entire process is cumbersome, and you can't simultaneously see the contents of source and destination folders. You often have to scroll all over the place in the left pane to get to source and destination parent folder graphics. Note that there are countless variations on Windows Explorer navigation. I've mentioned a common one. As an example of variations, when you drag something to the left if you hold it over a folder for a few seconds the folder will auto-expand without you clicking the "+" to expand it.

By contrast, WinNavigator lets you see two complete views without scrolling back-and-fourth. You easily navigate to source on one side of screen and destination on the other side, and drag/drop your file(s)/folder(s) for move/copy. Simple. And there are many other handy features and usages.

I'll reply to your Windoze slow response question in a new reply.

Cheers!

[think(box)]

"Windoze" Win98SE at 768MB memory

You know Bob, I have a hunch that Windows may not be handling memory properly. I had tried expanding my Win98SE system beyond 512MB and found that the memory handler went into "very slow" mode yet all 768MB were usable. I took the extra 256MB out and it went back to normal speed. I know that for beyond Win98SE (XP for sure, don't know about ME) you can have 2GB of memory without performance problems. The cause for my system's slow performance could very well be the hardware memory controller and not Win98SE. I couldn't determine. Does your system's manual say it is designed for up to 768MB? Mine said only 512MB and in practical terms this was true. Sometimes they give limits that are not true once technology improves.

So, by any chance did your system seem slow right after adding memory beyond 512MB?

Cheers,

[alrobin]

Bill,

I'm enjoying reading your very thorough and detailed postings, and learning a lot about Windows idiosynchrasies (sp?) - please keep it up!

One suggestion relating to multiple views: as you undoubtedly already know, if you open two instances of Windows Explorer, you can see the originating folder in one and the destination folder in the other, and freely drag and drop files between the two without having to search back and forth for the appropriate folders.

[think(box)]

Thanks Al! And I have used the "two Windows Explorer" technique too. That brings up a good general point to mention. You can drag things around between just about any two windows in any two applications. It is also good to mention use of the clipboard. Whatever it is, if it is highlighted (even a filename in a "Save as" box), right-mouse click it and select "Copy" or just press keyboard key "Ctrl" and "C". Then where you want to deposit the file, text, etc., just right mouse click and select "Paste" or click a paste button if window has one, or just press keyboard key "Ctrl" and "V". You can even "Paste" a name in when you've just created a new folder in a "Save as" box by right-mouse clicking the "New folder" that is highlighted and waiting for you to name it and clicking "Paste", or just press "Ctrl" and "V" without the menu step.

Cheers!

[LumenLux]

Does your system's manual say it is designed for up to 768MB? Mine said only 512MB and in practical terms this was true. Sometimes they give limits that are not true once technology improves.

So, by any chance did your system seem slow right after adding memory beyond 512MB?

Aging motherboard (Abit BH6) manual does show maximum memory configuration as 768MB. I put in the 768 long ago and don't recall a noticeable slowdown. I am (was)aware the MS acknowledges error messages on some systems when 512K is exceded. I don't think I have ever run into such message. Things have been better just since cleaning up the autorun.inf icon hangup. Thanks again for all the info. Even when "perfection" is not achieved, the info helps me get over my periodic seasons of discontent.

[think(box)]

OK Bob - The mainboard may be slower than others. Mine has 82371AB/EB chip set from the start of UDMA.

Have you ever added a PCI IDE adapter card? I doubled disk-to-disk transfer speeds to about 15MB/sec (most commonly) by adding that card. That is about 1GB per minute when copying large files. It also creates four more IDE ports (gray ribbon connectors for HD and CD drives) for a total of eight in the box. I have 5 HD's (100,100,120,120,250GB) and 3 CD/DVD drives at once. I had to change to a more powerful power supply to go beyond 2HD+2CD in my system. That can be a breeze, and it can be a pain if supply has proprietary connectors and/or wiring instead of AT or ATX standards. I was blessed with "proprietary" and had to splice in a new supply.

The PCI IDE adapter also improves Windoze and other application performance because disk-based performance is faster if from a drive on the PCI IDE card. I suggest a card manufactured by Promise Technology, and ATA-133 speed is the most recent and fastest. If you buy a hard drive that has very high capacity, many are sold with a Promise Tech IDE card in the hard drive retail box. Maxtor, for example, uses Promise cards with their own Maxtor name on them. Look at the chips on the card and they say Promise. It works great. Note that as others have posted notes about PCI-slot fussiness, the PCI-IDE card needs to do PCI Bus Mastering. That is usually the reason for slot fussiness. You have to put any such card nearest the processor to be sure it is a PCI Bus Mastering slot.

Cheers!

[LumenLux]

You have to put any such card nearest the processor to be sure it is a PCI Bus Mastering slot.

Cheers!

Cheers indeed my friend. But I think every card in my machine would like that slot! I have (in past instances) spent days rotating six cards and rebooting until the leather wore out! I guess I should consider a new mother board but then some of my old cards might not work I guess I need to digest a little here.

I do appreciate the info about the PCI IDE card. I had tried such a card on a machine at my office and could never determine any gain. I may have found the card was not compatible with the motherboard or bios or something at that time. So until your explanation, I had wondered if such cards were more gimmick. Good to know that is not so.