Release date for version 5?

[peterharper]

I was referred here from the DP Review forum. I've been carefully comparing the output quality with other slide show programs such as Memories on tv and Proshow. Picstoexe definitely comes out on top in this department, which right now is most important to me.

However, I'd ultimately like to sell slide shows to supplement my income. So whether or not I use this program will depend on if it is useful for professional purposes. While version 4 is fine, lack of basic features like pan and zoom make it a no go for professional work. I normally never touch betas, but I did look at version 5. Although promising, the lack of a firm release date is rather bothersome. To be blunt, I've been screwed by vaporware in the past. I am not interested in investing time and energy into a program that will be dead in 6 months.

So can anyone tell me when a full version of 5.0 is expected for release? I don't expect an exact date, but from what I can tell there is just an open ended promise that it will be released sometime in the future.

Peter

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

PicturesToExe has a very long history as a presentation slideshow program having begun with version 1.0 and now at 4.48. Each iteration has been welcomed because it's one of the most stable and usable products available. Many of us who use this product are professional photographers and PTE has wide acceptance and use among professionals so to refer to is as a "no go" for professional work is an oxymoron. It is and has been used by many professionals who deem image quality to be much more important than "flash". It's understandable that your personal needs include things such as pan, zoom, rotate and one can appreciate your desire to know when a release product will be available, but even the developers do not know precisely when that will happen.

Version 5 betas are, as you know have been and are available to make presentation slideshows with. The next beta to be released (beta 9) will be out soon and have a majority of the features of the release version 5.0. Many very fine professional slideshow presentations have been created with PTE "betas".

If you are familiar with software development, you will realize that it's an ongoing process, an iterative development of features and refinements which is never really "finished". Some of the "competition" has recently "released" a new version which has had over 300 "fixes" in the past few months. Though no software is "bug free" the developers of PTE have always tried to produce the most stable and usable product they can make. Rather than release what is obviously a "beta" as a product, they allow their users to have full access to the process complete with suggestions and recommendations, many of which end up as features in the produce.

Versions 1.0 through 4.48 "happened". Version 5.0 will "happen" and most assuredly numerous versions after 5.0. Unfortunately it's not possible to give a specific time frame because development and testing is ongoing. All that can be said with assurance is that version 5 is much closer to completion than to the start. Right now this product as a beta can do things which other presentation software can not do. It has tremendous power and animation capabilities as evidenced by the numerous demonstrations and presentation slideshows already created with it.

As a "beta" it's miles ahead of other's "released" products as far as stability goes. Personally, I have no qualms about recommending it. There is no magic about a "release". It's simply an arbitrary point where developers say that they believe the product is sufficiently feature rich and stable enough to be a useful tool for the majority of users.

There is no "vaporware" here. It's already a useable product which is being refined and having additional features added. Whether it is useful to you, only you can decide.

Best regards,

Lin

I was referred here from the DP Review forum. I've been carefully comparing the output quality with other slide show programs such as Memories on tv and Proshow. Picstoexe definitely comes out on top in this department, which right now is most important to me.

However, I'd ultimately like to sell slide shows to supplement my income. So whether or not I use this program will depend on if it is useful for professional purposes. While version 4 is fine, lack of basic features like pan and zoom make it a no go for professional work. I normally never touch betas, but I did look at version 5. Although promising, the lack of a firm release date is rather bothersome. To be blunt, I've been screwed by vaporware in the past. I am not interested in investing time and energy into a program that will be dead in 6 months.

So can anyone tell me when a full version of 5.0 is expected for release? I don't expect an exact date, but from what I can tell there is just an open ended promise that it will be released sometime in the future.

Peter

[sanewcomb]

To be honest, the final release for ver 5.0 is likely to be several months from now, although it could be a few weeks away.

A timeline:

May 01, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #1 released

May 06, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #2 released

Jun 20, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #3 released

Aug 03, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #4 released

Aug 16, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #5 released

Sep 26, 2006 P2E v5.00 Beta #6 released

Oct 30, 2006 P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #7 with DVD Builder released

Nov 24, 2006 Road to final release, estimate was 2-3 months

Nov 30, 2006 P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #8a released, letter used to denote bug fixes for DVD portion

Dec 13, 2006 special test version of new music player released

Dec 29, 2006 music sync and modes finished for AVI and DVD, but not EXE or Preview

...... many versions #8b to #8t

Jan 17, 2007 P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #8u released - last beta released

?? P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #9 Second graphics engine, sound and music sync and modes

?? P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #10 Navigation bar, buttons, text objects, textured backgrounds, adj PZR speeds

?? P2E Deluxe v5.00 Beta #11 same as above

?? P2E Deluxe v5.00 Final Release

In my opinion the development of the successor to P2E v4.x got side tracked (delayed) in October when the decision was made to develop an add on DVD authoring program. It has little to do with high quality slideshows for computer presentations, but it is a highly desired feature for many users. Very few features related to the basic operation of P2E have been enabled since beta #6. Re-enabling these features soon was mentioned as far back as Aug 2006. It was also reported that the missing features were almost ready at the end of Oct 2006 and would be inserted into next betas. Then all the beta#8a..u were released without them and that was 5 months ago. It is not clear to me what is delaying betas #9-11, but it is probably related to the music sync/engine issue for Preview and EXE files.

I do not mean to imply P2E v5.00 will never be finished. It certainly will be released and I fully support Wnsoft in its goal of high quality software. It is to counter the many positive postings over the last 6 months that features will soon be enabled and to be patient for the final version. The expectation of a soon to be completed v5.00 version was established late last summer, but complications with some features and the addition of the DVD authoring program has significantly delayed the final release of v5.00.

No one knows when it will be released, but many hope the previous features will be enabled sooner rather than later and that additional, new features and refinements will be delayed until after the v5.00 release.

Sincerely,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[alrobin]

I do not mean to imply P2E v5.00 will never be finished. It certainly will be released and I fully support Wnsoft in its goal of high quality software. It is to counter the many positive postings over the last 6 months that features will soon be enabled and to be patient for the final version.

Steve,

Now why would you even want to consider countering positive postings like these? We need more positive atitudes and encouragement, not negativity. "Soon" is a very relative term - much different when applied to building a house than when used in connection with development of software, as we have experienced many times with practically every product on the market.

The "final release" of v.5 is more likely to be several years from now. As Lin Evans so eloquently pointed out in the preceding post, there is nothing that significant about a "release". In the case of PTE version 4, we had the first beta in 2003, with the "release" in March 2003, but the "final" release of v.4 was not until 4.48 in April, 2006. After the "release" WnSoft continued to improve on version 4 for 3 years.

In the case of v.5, Igor elected to release the betas at an earlier stage in the development in order to obtain feedback from a few of us willing to test new features and provide suggestions and requests. But the overall development time, from initial beta to completion, for what has turned out to be a much more complicated and ambitious project, is, so far, about the same as for version 4.

And Lin's other point about usability of v.5 is equally true in that we have already seen a number of very excellent AV productions created with it.

[peterharper]

Lin,

I'm not as concerned with bugs as usability. As you said, all software has bugs. If a company is actively making an effort to fix those bugs, I have no problem. My fear is rather the unattainable goal of perfection. Too often, the company just goes bankrupt first. I've seen this happen more times than I care for. And your promises of "coming soon" do nothing to lessen my concern that the next Picstoexe version is vaporware. Whether Picstoexe is useful or not to me is exactly why I am asking this.

Steve,

You had the guts to answer my question. I have no problem waiting months if a release is definitely in sight. The ability to honestly answer that is more important. I, for one, need to have DVD burning so waiting is not as much of an issue. I'd rather see it done right than poorly. But waiting several months is much different than waiting several years (although not as ideal as several days or weeks).

Al,

I inquired about the full release, not final, which I think Steve's response was concerning. Overly positive statements at the expense of the facts are another thing that sink software companies. I would rather hear the unvarnished truth, than pie in the sky idealism.

Peter

[wideangle]

I think that there have been too many comments in the forums from people who don't have the necessary facts to hand, about when the next release is likely to be. These 'guestimates' are no use to anyone who needs to plan ahead, especially since so many of them have been way off the mark.

I am a firm supporter of the waiting game if it means a better product, (which I'm sure it will), but I do feel that it would be really helpful if Igor and team can give us an update on what their current targets are in terms of release dates. I'm sure everyone understands when certain dates are not met - things happen - that's life, but at least it would be helpful to some of us.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

It's illogical to use the term "vaporware" when referring to PTE 5.0 because a very useful version is already available for you to use as you see fit. As I said earlier, "when" a product is called a "release" is an arbitrary decision at the sole discretion of the developer. Would you prefer that the developer tell you that the product will be "released" in 60 days then at that time call it a release?

There are many, many unhappy people using a competitive product which was "released" then plagued by over 300 "fixes" in the following three months. By the way it's sill not functioning well as evidenced by the complaints on one of the more popular forums dedicated to it. Bugs may not be more important to you than features, but tell that to the users of this feature rich product who can't get real work done with it and perhaps they may convince you othewise.

I've used PTE for many, many years. During that time I've also used numerous competitive products - most of them actually. I've never had any concerns that PTE would not continue to evolve and improve since that's been the history of this product.

On another forum you expressed your reluctance to use a "beta" product. Why is that? Are you concerned about "bugs" or about a lack of features? If it's a lack of features then why don't you list the features you need and perhaps it would then be easier to address your temporal concerns.

If you are overly concerned, and you appear to be so, with the financial future of Wnsoft, then perhaps this isn't the product for you. Earlier and on another forum you mentioned that you felt it "couldn't" be that great because of the low price. Are you still trying to convince yourself that you were correct? It seems you are interested, but not enough to invest $24. Maybe paying ten times this for a "released" product which may or may not function properly for you would be more comforting?

The bottom line is that version 5 will be released when the developers deem it ready. Beta releases have happened on a fairly regular time table and the developer has been more than responsive to suggestions by users for improvements and additional features for consideration. The present beta is quite capable of being used to create superior slideshows AND DVD's.

Would I like to see features of 4.48 implemented in version 5.0? Of course. And this is happening with each new beta release. Is it a deal killer that a projected timetable for release isn't accurate? Absolutely not because that's the nature of software development. I was a successful software developer for many years myself and I fully understand how it must proceed.

People tend to get impatient because things are not progressing fast enough - then when and if a developer releases a product prematurely and it doesn't function correctly they are upset.

The developers of PTE are very competent programmers. They don't need your help or mine in making decisions about how and when to implement features and when to call their product a "release". As users, we can either accept this or find another product which suits us.

I know which way I will go - LOL...

Lin

Lin,

I'm not as concerned with bugs as usability. As you said, all software has bugs. If a company is actively making an effort to fix those bugs, I have no problem. My fear is rather the unattainable goal of perfection. Too often, the company just goes bankrupt first. I've seen this happen more times than I care for. And your promises of "coming soon" do nothing to lessen my concern that the next Picstoexe version is vaporware. Whether Picstoexe is useful or not to me is exactly why I am asking this.

Steve,

You had the guts to answer my question. I have no problem waiting months if a release is definitely in sight. The ability to honestly answer that is more important. I, for one, need to have DVD burning so waiting is not as much of an issue. I'd rather see it done right than poorly. But waiting several months is much different than waiting several years (although not as ideal as several days or weeks).

Al,

I inquired about the full release, not final, which I think Steve's response was concerning. Overly positive statements at the expense of the facts are another thing that sink software companies. I would rather hear the unvarnished truth, than pie in the sky idealism.

Peter

[alrobin]

Peter,

Welcome to the Forum! Glad you decided to join the ever-growing group of PTE afficionadoes world-wide, some of whom have been happily using PTE for many years now.

The term "firm release" does not apply to PTE - it is simply a rather arbitrary point in time during the ongoing, continuous development of a high-quality, full-featured product. Like any software product, it will never meet the total needs of everyone, any more than any other piece of software does.

I can understand your concerns when you are new to a program, and haven't had the experience that the rest of us have had in using it most successfully over the years. You have to use a product for a while before you develop any loyalty to the brand, or develop a confidence in the providers. I can safely say that even if development on the program ceased tomorrow, I, for one, would still be happily using it in its present form for years to come - that's how good it already is.

However, WnSoft in the past have demonstrated an interest and a willingness to bend over backward to give us new requested features and we have no reason to believe that the future will be any different. If you are expecting someone to give you a guarantee, then you won't get it here as no one knows any better than anyone else when different features will be available.

WnSoft have given us their targets, but like any other software, when you run into unforseen design issues and have to re-design existing features and certain core areas of the program in order to make them all fit, and work smoothly together, then these targets can easily become impossible to meet. One thing we can be sure of, however, is that the new features will not be made available until the designers are satisfied that everything else in the program is compatible with them.

As Lin mentioned, the current beta version of the program is a well-functioning and full-featured version, and no one should have any qualms about using it to display one's images in a satisfying, enjoyable and professional manner.

[peterharper]

Lin,

Ever spent hours on end creating a presentation using beta software only to have things suddenly go awry and the developer giving you nothing more than "what did you expect from a beta"? I have. I don't plan to repeat that.

I don't care about the price. The low price tag makes me suspicious, that's all. If Picstoexe lives up to all you claim and is such a low price, I have no problem what-so-ever. Believe me, I know higher price doesn't always equal higher quality.

Honestly, guys, I've just really been burned by fly-by-night software companies that don't give a fig about their customers. I really like the idea of the underdog having a better product, but my experience has just proven otherwise.

That said, you all seem to be quite supportive of the software. Assuming none of you are getting paid for your views, that speaks very highly about the product. So while I am not 100% about Picstoexe yet, I will give it a chance. At this point, it does appear to be the best of the lot. Even in beta. I wouldn't waste my time asking critical questions if I thought the program wasn't worth it.

Al,

So it seems honestly no one knows when the full version will be released. This is fine by me, I can be patient. I just have my limits. Regardless, your straightforward, cordial response is well taken.

Peter

[Guest Techman1]

Ever spent hours on end creating a presentation using beta software only to have things suddenly go awry and the developer giving you nothing more than "what did you expect from a beta"? I have. I don't plan to repeat that.

Peter,

Welcome to the forum. Based on your statement above, it sounds like you have already made up your mind about not using PTE. It's still in Beta and currently there isn't a firm release date of the production V5 release. I wish you luck with the other guys products!

I am still using this Beta version to create Client released DVD's and have been for the past year now without issue. While this is a Beta release, it is not even close to many other companies Beta's I have tested over the years. Yes, I wish there were a few more things in the Beta currently, but it doesn't stop us from using this product through a few work arounds here and there until the final release is out.

Again, good luck with your decision on the other products currently released in the market.

Regards,

Fred

[Ronniebootwest]

I have been reading through this post for a while now and my first reaction to the original question was, " Here we go again". There have been so many people asking when version 5 will be released!

Peter, as a newcomer to this forum you will not yet know how useful and friendly the members (who contribute) are and I think that you will be impressed if you stay around. I have to say though, that I detect a very negative attitude in your remarks in connection with 'release dates'. If you compare Pictures To Exe with other similar software you will find that the developers (Igor and his team) have always kept the interests of users at the forefront of their thinking. (this is unique as far as I am concerned). As for the quality of PTE, well what can I say? just take a look at the other slide show software available and you will have your answer. On a score out of 10, PTE gets 10, the others can only claim up to 7!

Why not spend the time available, before version 5 is released, in learning to master the many excellent freatures already available in beta 8(u), there is enough there to convince any sceptic that the software is worth waiting for.

Ron West

[RayC]

I have been reading through this post for a while now and my first reaction to the original question was, " Here we go again". There have been so many people asking when version 5 will be released!

Peter, as a newcomer to this forum you will not yet know how useful and friendly the members (who contribute) are and I think that you will be impressed if you stay around. I have to say though, that I detect a very negative attitude in your remarks in connection with 'release dates'. If you compare Pictures To Exe with other similar software you will find that the developers (Igor and his team) have always kept the interests of users at the forefront of their thinking. (this is unique as far as I am concerned). As for the quality of PTE, well what can I say? just take a look at the other slide show software available and you will have your answer. On a score out of 10, PTE gets 10, the others can only claim up to 7!

Why not spend the time available, before version 5 is released, in learning to master the many excellent freatures already available in beta 8(u), there is enough there to convince any sceptic that the software is worth waiting for.

Ron West

Well said Ron, I think some of these people want the cheapest and the best well here they have got it and if they spent less time moaning and use that time to give PTE try out they would find the same as we do.

Ray

[sanewcomb]

I have no problem waiting months if a release is definitely in sight.

P2E is definitely not vaporware and the release is in sight. As others said, the current beta release is a complete program that can be used to make excellent computer and DVD slideshows right now. It has a long history and is an ongoing development.

You were right I was talking about the release of ver 5.00, which is not the final release of 5.x or of P2E. It will not be years from now. It is a specific release which will include all the basic functions people expect of slideshow software and will be as bug free as the programmers can make it. WnSoft programmers are very good, and the issues with the current beta have more to do with re-enabling previous functions, albeit much improved, than removing bugs. This is only my opinion. There aren't many functions left to re-enable (see link below), but unfortunately a few of them are important to some of us, such as comments and music sync.

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....amp;#entry32593

or

http://tinyurl.com/273xmz

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[mightec]

Well now, we are getting our knickers in a twist.

It is up to everyone to decide for themselves, I know that I am very happy with PTE and I do not have to defend that choice. It is everyone to there own.

[ksf]

This is one of those topics that I read and wait to see where it leads before making a response. So here goes...

Everyone has raised valid points in favour of P2E - and rightly so. There is little doubt amongst the users of P2E that it is an exceptional product and that we are lucky to have a very dedicated development team working on it. "Exceptional product" because of its sheer quality over other (often more expensive) products and "dedicated" because Igor and his team want to make sure they give us the best product they can (and they often do). The problem is that newcomers to P2E and to the forum are currently seeing an incomplete version of the program raising a lot of queries and comments on the forum. Understandably, perhaps, they may feel that things aren't going too well with the development.

Part of the problem is, as pointed out in other comments above, that we have had 8u for some time with little or no word about a date for 5.9. Peter is right to have reservations about so-called vapourware but P2E does not fall into this category. Steve is right that things seemed to get delayed when the DVD functions were added. At the time we were told this was a simple plug-in to v5 and would be easy to add. It wasn't, and it led to a whole barrage of queries and requests for changes to get it working and to his credit Igor resolved the issues. He is now working on the next update to reinstate some of the "missing" functions from v4.48 (eg buttons and music synch).

It may be difficult for newcomers to comprehend but those of us who know the history of development, and know the way Igor and his team work, will have the confidence and patience to wait for the next "Release" knowing that it will be another major step forward and will still be streets ahead of the opposition.

I am more than happy to wait.

[Ronniebootwest]

Now this is a sensible, calm and rational response Keith and you were very wise to wait until now to add your comments. I applaud you and your very wise remarks.

Ron