Cliff Palace at Mesa Verde

[thedom]

I also posted a similar combined panned and zoomed version (11 Mb) from the full 57 images.

Absolutely amazing !!!

Thanks for the ride.

[jfa]

I also posted a similar combined panned and zoomed version (11 Mb) from the full 57 images.

CUT

It's interesting, though, that in the zoomed version, particularly, since the lines of the buildings are sharper and finer at the beginning, there is a lot more shimmer.

Al,

I had a look at this show/example (11Mb version) and WOW!

On my system there was no sign of any shimmer/flicker etc. It ran very smoothly. The zoom on the other show (7Mb) did have a small amount at the start on the edges as you said.

The 11Mb pan did cry out for a zoom back to a view of the entire scene at the end, from the point where the forest just fills the screen. Then maybe a dissolve to the posted image of the 57 separate images as a demonstration of what has been done. Any chance of a remake?

[alrobin]

Absolutely amazing !!!

Thanks for the ride.

Thanks, Dom - you're welcome!

The 11Mb pan did cry out for a zoom back to a view of the entire scene at the end, from the point where the forest just fills the screen. Then maybe a dissolve to the posted image of the 57 separate images as a demonstration of what has been done. Any chance of a remake?

John,

Probably not - it's really just a test and demo of the capabilities inherent in PTE v.5, to show the potential of the program, and also the possibilities with panoramas. I wouldn't use such a long panorama in an actual AV sequence unless it were for record purposes. Thanks for the feedback, though!

[Ken Cox]

smooth Al

better have Liz order the jackets, Steven will be calling

ken

[neil]

Hello,

Just watched this with Nvidia GeForce 6200 which I presume to be a cheap card (as the computer was relatively cheap) , and it worked brilliantly really smooth and excellent quality.Enjoyed it!!

Neil

[JudyKay]

Smooth as a whistle! What a cool idea. It was like riding in a hot air balloon with controls and having a piano in the basket just behind me. But....what are those rug-looking things? Rugs?

jk

[ADB]

Lin

Thanks for the info. Used to use PTAssembler but now on to PTGUI simply because of the Graphical Interface. You hinted on the endless zoom using several images at different zooms but aligning carefully in O&A, I think this could stand some further experimentation. One thing that amazes me with Max Lyons and taking 196 images, by the time you have taken them surely something must have moved? clouds, shadows, wind affected trees/grass etc...

Would love to hear about your results for workable limits on stitched images and PTE.

Al

Thanks for posting the 57 image pano, was impressive and smooth - did noticed the intial shimmering too. In regards to my comments above did you have any stitching issues in terms of the time taken to make 57 exposures and having clouds etc move on you? I bet if you used PTGUI or PTASSEMBLER you stitch would be very sharp!

I like to use this in discussions with film die-hards as an example of what can be done with digital technology

Have you been in a camera shop lately? Its like a big deal if they sell a 35mm Film Camera and a top quality second hand Canon E0S 5 sells for about $100 USD!! Absolutely crazy! Many of the C41 and E6 processing places have centralized to the big city centres and I hear sadly many people in the "film" processing/manufacturing industry are being laid off. On my recent photography road trip one of my companions was using Velvia Slide Film and shot about 14 rolls. This cost him about $450 USD in film costs and processing without any prints. It equated to around 504 images. I was using Digital shot around 2000 images and the cost was ...Nil! I know its not about how many images you make but when its costing around $1 a shot you aren't going to be quite as trigger happy or try quite as many alternate shots and certainly aren't going to capture big panoramas. He has today ordered a Canon 30D Body and is very excited about it.

Cheers

Andrew

[alrobin]

Thanks for posting the 57 image pano, was impressive and smooth - did noticed the intial shimmering too. In regards to my comments above did you have any stitching issues in terms of the time taken to make 57 exposures and having clouds etc move on you? I bet if you used PTGUI or PTASSEMBLER you stitch would be very sharp!

Andrew

As you know, I used the UBC "autostitch" program (it's a free demo, but after 30 days I found that I can simply delete the program and download a new copy from www.autostitch.net ).

I used plenty of overlap between the images. The only problem I had was in the sky area - it went from light to darker and back to lighter a couple of times, so I had to do some cloning to make it uniform. Otherwise, I thought the stitching and exposure compensation were handled quite well. Of course, not much was moving in the image, except for a few people and automobiles, and they were far enough away that any distortion is not noticeable.

I just threw all the images into a single folder, adjusted the desired output size, and pressed the start button - it took about 3/4 of an hour to complete the process, which I thought was quite reasonable considering the number of images involved.

I'll have to give PTGUI a try. One drawback with the free demo is that it only accepts and outputs to jpeg format.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Andrew,

Not a problem in this particular case because the subject was quite far away and typical of Bryce Canyon images - primarily the beautiful rock cliffs. The same was true for Peter Grote's Annapurna frame done with the Betterlight scanning camera. To get great results from many, many overlapping frames, it's necessary to choose the subject matter more carefully.

I've used PTAssembler and PTGui and both have strengths and weaknesses like most stitching programs. The reason I like Autopano Pro is the combination of power and simplicity. It has excellent blending uses three types of interpolation, can match odd frames which are very difficult for other programs and you can simply throw all your images into a single folder, even ones not part of the stitch, and the program will automatically find, order and stitch every possible pano. It has some fantastic features.

I'll get back with another test a bit later.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin

Thanks for the info. Used to use PTAssembler but now on to PTGUI simply because of the Graphical Interface. You hinted on the endless zoom using several images at different zooms but aligning carefully in O&A, I think this could stand some further experimentation. One thing that amazes me with Max Lyons and taking 196 images, by the time you have taken them surely something must have moved? clouds, shadows, wind affected trees/grass etc...

Would love to hear about your results for workable limits on stitched images and PTE.

Cheers

Andrew

[Lin Evans]

Hi Al,

The same base algorithm developed by the authors of "autostitch" at UBC is used in Autopano Pro but there is very sophisticated automatic blending, etc., to take care of the problems which you needed to address by cloning. This method is licensed now to three different pano software developers. Autopano Pro was used to stitch the 13 gigapixel Harlem photo.

Best regards,

Lin

Andrew

As you know, I used the UBC "autostitch" program (it's a free demo, but after 30 days I found that I can simply delete the program and download a new copy from www.autostitch.net ).

I used plenty of overlap between the images. The only problem I had was in the sky area - it went from light to darker and back to lighter a couple of times, so I had to do some cloning to make it uniform. Otherwise, I thought the stitching and exposure compensation were handled quite well. Of course, not much was moving in the image, except for a few people and automobiles, and they were far enough away that any distortion is not noticeable.

I just threw all the images into a single folder, adjusted the desired output size, and pressed the start button - it took about 3/4 of an hour to complete the process, which I thought was quite reasonable considering the number of images involved.

I'll have to give PTGUI a try. One drawback with the free demo is that it only accepts and outputs to jpeg format.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Neil,

Good to hear. Both Al's and my pano should be smooth with most systems.

Best regards,

Lin

Hello,

Just watched this with Nvidia GeForce 6200 which I presume to be a cheap card (as the computer was relatively cheap) , and it worked brilliantly really smooth and excellent quality.Enjoyed it!!

Neil

[Lin Evans]

Hi Judy,

Thanks Judy! Those are small discs of adobe brick laid out on cement slabs. They are used as color samples by the rangers when mixing and matching sandstone and mortar for making repairs which have to be done on occasion to keep the integrity of some of the buildings and walls.

Best regards,

Lin

Smooth as a whistle! What a cool idea. It was like riding in a hot air balloon with controls and having a piano in the basket just behind me. But....what are those rug-looking things? Rugs?

jk

[alrobin]

The same base algorithm developed by the authors of "autostitch" at UBC is used in Autopano Pro but there is very sophisticated automatic blending, etc., to take care of the problems which you needed to address by cloning. This method is licensed now to three different pano software developers.

Lin,

Thanks for the info. I was wondering whether this technology had been picked up yet. I'll check out the "Autopano Pro".

The 11Mb pan did cry out for a zoom back to a view of the entire scene at the end, from the point where the forest just fills the screen. Then maybe a dissolve to the posted image of the 57 separate images as a demonstration of what has been done. Any chance of a remake?

John,

I changed my mind - HERE is a more elaborate version - a sort of figure-8 stroll through the town. I think I like this version best. Thanks for the tip!

However, with the additional objects in O&A (all empty "frames"), I had to fix the beginning and ending so that the dissolves in and out were complete before the pan started.

One thing I have noticed in doing these is that when "smooth" acceleration/deceleration is used, the opening and closing slide transitions seem to have a slightly less-noticeable effect on the smoothness of the PZR effects as they take a little longer to "get going".

[CorVdK]

Hello Lin,

I just watched your single slide slideshow: Cliff Palace.

Title text: OK

Panorama: Travel very smooth until zoom-in to 2 persons; zoom-in smooth; then new travel to the left and slow zoom-out: light "hic" and some "movements" during travel (also white lines visible every 1 cm), after a second, travel is smooth again.

When I played the show a second time, results where better (no white lines anymore), still some "trumbling" where travel stops and zoom-out starts.

Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2,00 GHz, XP sp2, 768 MB RAM, graphics card NVidia GeForce4 MX460 with 64 Mb of graphics memory.

Best regards,

Cor

[CorVdK]

Andrew,

I posted an example of a zoomed 25-image construction from the Brasov images here on my web site (7 Mb). I also posted a similar combined panned and zoomed version (11 Mb) from the full 57 images. In the former, the main image is approx. 4000 x 3000, and in the latter, 11,000 x 3000 pixels. PTE seems to handle them with no problem.

It's interesting, though, that in the zoomed version, particularly, since the lines of the buildings are sharper and finer at the beginning, there is a lot more shimmer. This is largely because of the interpolation going on, and the fact that many of the straight lines are only one or two pixels in width, thereby contributing uncertainty in just where to draw them as they move from one spot to another. Thus they tend to jump back and forth with the slow movement of the image. Once the image is larger, the lines consist of more pixels in width, and this "uncertainty" in interpolation is less noticeable.

Hello Al,

I also watched your BrasovPano and BrasovZoom.

The pano was very smooth on my computer. With the zoom I have also "the shimmer" (the one pixel lines) as you described in your post above. But indeed once the image becomes larger, the lines are gone.

My computer is 5 years old: Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2,00 GHz, XP sp2, 768 MB RAM, graphics card NVidia GeForce4 MX460 with 64 Mb of graphics memory.

After the test with Lin's Cliff Palace show, I think that with the configuration that I have now, it will be a problem to play back shows with combinations of pan-zoom-rotation, specialy when those animations come on the same time. With "normal" resolution of 1024 x 768 images it's possible for me to bring in one animation at a time, otherwise playback is jerky. I think I have to live with it or buy a new computer.

Greetings,

Cor

[Ken Cox]

Al

"I changed my mind - HERE is a more elaborate version - a sort of figure-8 stroll through the town. I think I like this version best. Thanks for the tip!"

best yet

wiggles are negligible -- we had them way worse when working on your's, Hawk and my stuff months ago

ken

[Lin Evans]

Hi Cor,

I don't think you need a new computer, just a new video card. The computer itself has quite sufficeint power to run the slideshows without problem, but the MX460 doesn't. As I told someone else a few days ago, if you have an AGP (advanced graphics port) slot on the bus (run dxdiag to see) you can get an older ATI Radeon 9800 Pro on the web for a bit over (and sometimes under) $100 U.S. - certainly cheaper than a new computer and will run virtually any slideshow smoothly without problems.

Best regards,

Lin

Hello Al,

I also watched your BrasovPano and BrasovZoom.

The pano was very smooth on my computer. With the zoom I have also "the shimmer" (the one pixel lines) as you described in your post above. But indeed once the image becomes larger, the lines are gone.

My computer is 5 years old: Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2,00 GHz, XP sp2, 768 MB RAM, graphics card NVidia GeForce4 MX460 with 64 Mb of graphics memory.

After the test with Lin's Cliff Palace show, I think that with the configuration that I have now, it will be a problem to play back shows with combinations of pan-zoom-rotation, specialy when those animations come on the same time. With "normal" resolution of 1024 x 768 images it's possible for me to bring in one animation at a time, otherwise playback is jerky. I think I have to live with it or buy a new computer.

Greetings,

Cor

[alrobin]

Cor,

Thanks for the feedback - it's encouraging to hear that even with very large images, the pan and zoom in PTE v.5 seemst to play well on even the "older" pc's, without a lot of extra video RAM. If one is careful, therefore, not to overlap a transition with a PZRO action, and does not have many such actions happening at once, most v.5 shows should play quite smoothly on most "new" pc's.

I didn't think I would experience this, but personally, now when I watch an older show made with version 4, I keep wanting to see a slight bit of motion on certain slides. Not a lot, but just a touch, depending of course on the nature of the show. I think, like fine scotch, these new effects are an acquired taste.

[alrobin]

wiggles are negligible -- we had them way worse when working on your's, Hawk and my stuff months ago

Yes, there is very little shimmer on the pan version. It is more noticeable on the zoomed version - probably because the lines are sharper, and also they are not changing position as quickly as in a pan so tend to "jump" back and forth, producing a sort of "moire" pattern effect.

[CorVdK]

Hello Lin,

"I don't think you need a new computer, just a new video card. "

Thanks for the advise. When I want to move on in AV and take advantage with the possibilities of PicturesToExe, I think I'll have to do something in the near future.

Hello Al,

If one is careful, therefore, not to overlap a transition with a PZRO action, and does not have many such actions happening at once, most v.5 shows should play quite smoothly on most "new" pc's.

Yes, with the computer that I have now, I have to take in account what is possible with the configuration and what is not. When you know the restrictions of your system there is still a lot possible with PTE.

I didn't think I would experience this, but personally, now when I watch an older show made with version 4, I keep wanting to see a slight bit of motion on certain slides. Not a lot, but just a touch, depending of course on the nature of the show. I think, like fine scotch, these new effects are an acquired taste.

Ha, it is in a very short period that we are used to all those magnificent possibilities and effects. A few years ago I remember myself trying to make decent fades with my slides and Ektapro projectors.

Greetings,

Cor

[ALBERT BURROWS]

Hi,

This is a single slide slideshow. Well, actually three if you count the title and ending slides but the main slide is 10 megabytes and about 6,000 by 1500 pixels in dimensions. I was wondering how smoothly it plays on different levels of video cards, etc., so would appreciate some feedback on this.

http://www.lin-evans.net/p2e/cliffpalace.zip

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin

Have just run your show on my new laptop. With Vista Home Premium. and Nvidia Ge Force 7300. I thought it ran quite beautifully even allowing for the fact that I am a complete novice. I had to get someone else to show me how to find out about the card! Shows how knowledgable I am. I hope this little bit of information will at least be helpful for you.

Many thanks for your past advice

Best wishes

Sutherland

[Lin Evans]

Hi Albert,

Thanks very much for testing this - I think this is the first time this one was tested on Vista as I recall.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin

Have just run your show on my new laptop. With Vista Home Premium. and Nvidia Ge Force 7300. I thought it ran quite beautifully even allowing for the fact that I am a complete novice. I had to get someone else to show me how to find out about the card! Shows how knowledgable I am. I hope this little bit of information will at least be helpful for you.

Many thanks for your past advice

Best wishes

Sutherland

[prashant]

Hi,

This is a single slide slideshow. Well, actually three if you count the title and ending slides but the main slide is 10 megabytes and about 6,000 by 1500 pixels in dimensions. I was wondering how smoothly it plays on different levels of video cards, etc., so would appreciate some feedback on this.

http://www.lin-evans.net/p2e/cliffpalace.zip

Best regards,

Lin

Works perfect!!

Is there any tutorial for 'pan' effect available?