Excessive Noise

[kplebras]

When I load JPEG images into the PicturesToEXE program, some of the images appear with excessive noise (similar to very large grain on a wet-film image). When the images are viewed on other programs (Nikon Picture Project, Nikon Capture NX, PowerPoint), all the images are silky smooth. Each image file is large (about 5mb), but reducing the size of the image does not make an appreciable difference in quality. Also, there does not seem to be any consistency in which images display the noise (e.g., original ISO, etc). I'm new to this program, and was wondering if I'm doing something wrong. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks,

Paul Lebras

[Lin Evans]

Hi Paul,

If you would post a link to one of the images which appear very noisy in PTE I will be glad to test it for you and see if there is something unique about the image causing this problem.

It's not a problem I've ever seen before and I can not think of any reason why PTE should treat the image any differently than other programs. PowerPoint isn't useful to compare because it resizes the images in terms of file size and definitely softens them which would ameliorate noise but Nikon Capture, IrfanView, PhotoShop, etc., return pretty much what is in the image as does PTE. The quickest way to determine what is going on is to post a link to one of the originals at full original size and some of us can test it quickly and perhaps get to the bottom of your problem.

Best regards,

Lin

When I load JPEG images into the PicturesToEXE program, some of the images appear with excessive noise (similar to very large grain on a wet-film image). When the images are viewed on other programs (Nikon Picture Project, Nikon Capture NX, PowerPoint), all the images are silky smooth. Each image file is large (abotu 5mb), but reducing the size of the image does not make an appreciable difference in quality. Also, there does not seem to be any consistency in which images display the noise (e.g., original ISO, etc). I'm new to this program, and was wondering if I'm doing something wrong. Has anyone else had this problem? Thanks,

Paul Lebras

[kplebras]

Hi Paul,

If you would post a link to one of the images which appear very noisy in PTE I will be glad to test it for you and see if there is something unique about the image causing this problem.

It's not a problem I've ever seen before and I can not think of any reason why PTE should treat the image any differently than other programs. PowerPoint isn't useful to compare because it resizes the images in terms of file size and definitely softens them which would ameliorate noise but Nikon Capture, IrfanView, PhotoShop, etc., return pretty much what is in the image as does PTE. The quickest way to determine what is going on is to post a link to one of the originals at full original size and some of us can test it quickly and perhaps get to the bottom of your problem.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

Thank you very much for the fast response. The only place I can think of posting the image is on the Nikonians Site, but the limit per photo is 250 kb, which I'm not sure would enable you to replicate the problem. The actual image I want to post is 6.4mb; it was shot at ISO 100 and in the Nikon programs it is virtually noise free. Do you have any other suggestions as to how to provide you with the image?

Thanks in advance,

Paul

[MarioG]

Hi Paul,

If you would post a link to one of the images which appear very noisy in PTE I will be glad to test it for you and see if there is something unique about the image causing this problem.

It's not a problem I've ever seen before and I can not think of any reason why PTE should treat the image any differently than other programs. PowerPoint isn't useful to compare because it resizes the images in terms of file size and definitely softens them which would ameliorate noise but Nikon Capture, IrfanView, PhotoShop, etc., return pretty much what is in the image as does PTE. The quickest way to determine what is going on is to post a link to one of the originals at full original size and some of us can test it quickly and perhaps get to the bottom of your problem.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Paul, it appears you use a Nikon as I do and I'd like to see the image also. Very unlikely to be a PTE problem.

You might consider trying to download it to the newsgroup below if you can access it or me directly as long as my isp

lets it through.

mario53@aapt.net.au

free.binaries.paint-shop-pro

If you download to the newsgroup make sure you announce the large file attchedment and add

in the subject line ping mario. This newsgroup is not very well frequented.

Mario

P.s make sure exif info is embeded.

[Ken Cox]

put picts in a zip

upload to

http://www.mediafire.com/

max file size is 100 mb

then post link for all to share

ken

[kplebras]

put picts in a zip

upload to

http://www.mediafire.com/

max file size is 100 mb

then post link for all to share

ken

Ken/Mario/Lin,

I have uploaded the image at the mediafire URL above; it is filed as "Fengdu.Flowers.jpg." In case the EXIF data did not attach, here's the information:

- image quality: RAW (12 bit)

- image size: 3451 x 2535

- taken with Nikon D200

- ISO 100

- Color mode III (sRGB)

Thanks to all for the assistance,

Paul

[Ken Cox]

give us the the link that is indicated for your file

the link should be something like this

http://www.mediafire.com/?f1gx9zex4by

image quality: RAW (12 bit) -- have you converted the picture to a jpeg and added to your show?

ken

[kplebras]

give us the the link that is indicated for your file

the link should be something like this

http://www.mediafire.com/?f1gx9zex4by

image quality: RAW (12 bit) -- have you converted the picture to a jpeg and added to your show?

ken

Ken,

Here's the complete link: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...90d&thumb=4 -- sorry for the confusion. Yes, I did convert the RAW image to a JPEG, using the "Excellent Quality" selection in the Save Options Dialog in Nikon Capture NX. Thanks,

Paul

[Ken Cox]

Paul

looks excellent to me on my 19"flat screen lcd at 1024/768 when viewed with irfanview at your original image size: 3451 x 2535

details on the petal edges is great

but there does seem to be a texture [grain as you called it] in certain parts of the petals -- shadow areas of the red

the yellow petal also shows some texture in the shadow of the lower left of petal -especially where theyellow petal looks like it has been cut

- but when resized to 1280/960 or 1600/1200 it disappears

when saved at 80% quality

1600/1200 = 282 kb

1280/960 = 177 kb

i think you better resize - you might be asking too much

better homes and gardens will be calling you

ken

mediafire link for download

http://www.mediafire.com/?f1hjfvqt90d

[LumenLux]

Paul, the "noise" you describe is immediately apparent when I present your downloaded file in PTE preview! My first guess is the problem is coming in the raw conversion somehow. I think your Nikon conversion program is famously good (?) but I have never seen a nice photo show that kind of degradation as a result of PTE! I will be interested when Lin or you or someone nails it down.

Editing my comment above to build on Ken's comment.

Using Irfanview, I resized your image to 1024x752. Saved in Irfanview at Quality 100 and Quality 70. Running the three slides in PTE preview, one after another, the grain is gone in both Q100 and Q70. I see no downgrading on my system vs. your original size file. It almost makes me wonder if PTE is "too good .vs the other viewers in showing what is really in the file/image? I guess the bottom line is, I would not consider the undesireable result a ''fault" of PTE, but a condition you can handle to suit your taste.

[kplebras]

Paul, the "noise" you describe is immediately apparent when I present your downloaded file in PTE preview! My first guess is the problem is coming in the raw conversion somehow. I think your Nikon conversion program is famously good (?) but I have never seen a nice photo show that kind of degradation as a result of PTE! I will be interested when Lin or you or someone nails it down.

Editing my comment above to build on Ken's comment.

Using Irfanview, I resized your image to 1024x752. Saved in Irfanview at Quality 100 and Quality 70. Running the three slides in PTE preview, one after another, the grain is gone in both Q100 and Q70. I see no downgrading on my system vs. your original size file. It almost makes me wonder if PTE is "too good .vs the other viewers in showing what is really in the file/image? I guess the bottom line is, I would not consider the undesireable result a ''fault" of PTE, but a condition you can handle to suit your taste.

Ken/LumenLux,

Thanks -- it's nice to know I wasn't hallucinating. I tried resizing in Capture NX to a much smaller image size, but it only improved the quality about 10% using PTE. The comment about PTE being too good may be valid, because I have just the opposite problem using other slide programs, such as Nero and ProShow -- images were noticeably less sharp than PTE. I'll try downloading Irfanview and using the settings indicated and then moving it to PTE. I appreciate all the assistance -- this is truly a helpful forum.

Paul

[Ken Cox]

Paul

I put together a quick show and using your original and my 2 resized -- separated by black slides, then viewed it on the monitor and my tv -- worst case test.

the original actually was soft compared to the other 2 on the tv

ken

[Lin Evans]

Hi Paul,

I downloaded your image and took a good look at it in Photoshop. The noise is there in the image - it could be being masked by settings in your Nikon software but I believe it's the result of oversharpening in the converter. It actually looks identical in Photoshop, Irfanview and PicturesToExe at full original size.

What I would do is check carefully the converter settings and don't apply too much sharpness. The "black pepper" appearance in the light areas can be ameliorated or almost removed with Neat Image or Noise Ninja, but on the flowers themselves, especially in the certer parts the effects of oversharpening are quite apparent. The conversion software is not creating halo effects of sharpening too miuch but what is is doing is creating a very strange artifact pattern. My guess is that the software is filtering this when you look at it, but when you take the original tiff file into Photoshop or Irfanview to view it, it's quite evident. The solution will be to do another conversion from the RAW and check the settings carefully, especially sharpening. It's possible to clean it up in post process, but better not to create the problem in the conversion.

You can rest assured, however, that it's not PTE which is creating the problem.

Best regards,

Lin

[kplebras]

Hi Paul,

I downloaded your image and took a good look at it in Photoshop. The noise is there in the image - it could be being masked by settings in your Nikon software but I believe it's the result of oversharpening in the converter. It actually looks identical in Photoshop, Irfanview and PicturesToExe at full original size.

What I would do is check carefully the converter settings and don't apply too much sharpness. The "black pepper" appearance in the light areas can be ameliorated or almost removed with Neat Image or Noise Ninja, but on the flowers themselves, especially in the certer parts the effects of oversharpening are quite apparent. The conversion software is not creating halo effects of sharpening too miuch but what is is doing is creating a very strange artifact pattern. My guess is that the software is filtering this when you look at it, but when you take the original tiff file into Photoshop or Irfanview to view it, it's quite evident. The solution will be to do another conversion from the RAW and check the settings carefully, especially sharpening. It's possible to clean it up in post process, but better not to create the problem in the conversion.

You can rest assured, however, that it's not PTE which is creating the problem.

Best regards,

Lin

Hello Lin,

Using an image that was even grainer/noisier, I disabled the sharpening features in the camera settings, and did not add any sharpening in the digital processing phase. The image in PTE is now very good in terms of noise, albeit not quite as sharp. I'll need to keep adjusting so that I strike the right balance between the two attributes, but it certainly seems that you have found the root cause of the problem. It's interesting that in both Capture NX and Picture Project, the image appears fine.

One other question: in terms of burning a PTE slide show to a DVD, do you have any recommendations for conversion software -- something not too complicated without too many bells and whistles?

Thanks very much for the help,

Paul