Thumbnail view of Slide list

[Igor]

I'm experimenting now with a Thumbnail view of the Slide list, which may be useful for PicturesToExe. Thumbnail list is presented in the main window of PTE (with ability to have two-three views).

It has multi-select feature (while to change an order of slides only).

Please let us know what you think about this feature. Is it necessary or not? And your suggestions.

p.s. also while there are no plans for thumbnail view of file panel. Only for the Slide list. And, of course, classic table view of the Slide list is available.

Thank you,

[Guest guru]

Igor, thumbnails of slide list can be VERY useful, but how do you plan to show them? In a presentation with - say - 100/150 pictures, we cannot obviously to see all of them...

Excuse me, I didn't well understand your description of this feature.

[alrobin]

Igor,

This would be a most useful feature in PTE.

As you probably know, I added a thumbnail capability to my "PTE Adjustor" model, and it is the feature which I use the most as an aid to putting together a PTE show. I would be happy to beta-test this feature in PTE for you to see what features you are thinking of providing.

No need for thumbnails on the file panel - it would just slow down the program too much.

And it should only be provided for the Slide list on demand, again so as not to slow down the operation of the program unless the user needed to use a light-table to rearrange the images.

Just adding thumbnails to the slide list, opposite the names, would not be too useful - they need to be on a separate window and spread out so it is possible to see all of the images. The ability to zoom in to a smaller portion of the light-table would be nice, too, so as to see the images better.

By the way, what do you mean by "two to three placements"?

Thank-you for considering this valuable tool in the program.

[Igor]

Thanks for your first and prompt responses!

This thumbnailer is also intended and for our another future products.

I usually work simultaneously on several features for the PTE.

This thumbnail view of the Slide list could be shown exactly instead of current Slide list or at the bottom part of the main window.

In both cases, the thumbs will be shown in one row horizontally.

But you right, it's only 5-7 visible thumbs at 1024x768.

I wouldn't want to make it as an separate window with multi-rows.

So maybe it better to freeze it for the PTE and concentrate for another more important features? Because thumbnail view on the stage of an earlier test.

[Guest guru]

I knew you were posting now, Igor, and I was waiting for your reply...

5/7 thumbnails instead of slide list? It's quite difficult to say if this is better than the usual slide list... Could it be possible to choose which pictures we wish to see, by scanning the whole list with two arrows, for example?

[boxig]

Igor,

This is maybe a little out of your topic but why not allow user of compiled exe to call, by an optional button, thumbnails of slides (slides, not images) ? Thumbs can be 100x60 so there can be about 80 on screen, when each thumb will carry a link to the slide. I think making it easy for end user is very important.

Granot

[nobeefstu]

Igor

Just offering my opinion ...

Your proposed Thumbnail View is a good idea .... but very limited as per your description/specs. I agree with your comment :

So maybe it better to freeze it for the PTE and concentrate for another more important features? Because thumbnail view on the stage of an earlier test.

Your Thumbnail View is a step in the right direction ... but a very minor step in my opinion ... as it will only make (us ) users comment/wish for more expanded capabilities/functions after getting a taste of this preview shortly after its first debut.

[Igor]

Because of this, I very appreciate this forum and your opinions to make right decision.

p.s. the idea of thumbnails page in a presentation is interesting. Thanks! But I'll think about this.

[LumenLux]

I thought most previous discussion and desire was for a thumbnail view of the filewindow. Such desired view (similiar to light table) would allow choosing or sorting before ever inserting in the slide window. Is this not what others had understood or requested?

Al, when you say thumbnails in the file list would slow program down - At what stage? Would it only slow down the display of slides when a new directory/folder is opened? If so, that seems like a "wait" that would not have to be endured very often. I think most users tend to do some early-grouping of expected files into the same directory or don't often change the file window directory for a particular show.

[alrobin]

Bob,

As I see it, the "file window" is there in order to present a list of possible slides to be selected for a show, not to make the final selection, or to sort them into a particular order. Presently in PTE, this sorting is typically done in the "slide list".

The slides in the file window are there by virtue of selecting a particular directory containing images you want in your show. Now, the images had to have been selected and put into that directory before opening PTE. So, if you want to see what images you are selecting originally for a particular directory, and hence, for the file window, you can use Win ME or XT to see the images, or a thumbnail editor like Easy Thumbnails, as they don't have to be in any particular order. With a light-table feature, the image names wouldn't even have to be "imported" into PTE in order, as the ordering would be done on the "light-table".

To display the images in the file list would involve some overhead, as it normally takes 1/4 to 1/2 sec per image to create a thumbnail, and this would have to be done for every image in every directory you clicked on in setting up the list of slides you want in the "file list". Every time you click on a different directory, my understanding is that you would have to wait for PTE to create the thumbnails.

My own main use for a table of thumbnails is in arranging the selected images into some particular sequence. Once the original selection has been made, the "slide list" becomes fairly stable, and the thumbnails would be created only once, except for those slides which are added to the list as the organization process proceeds.

There would be some advantage in being able to select images for the show from a table or list of thumbnails, but IMHO, the advantage would be offset by the overhead added to the process.

It is very easy to do this first selection right in Win Explorer, as you can already see the image for each file you are dragging into a special folder for the PTE show. In other words, don't do your preliminary searching for the slides for a show in PTE, itself - do it in advance, using the tools already available.

This is the way I see it, anyway.

[ronwil]

Before Digital and P2E one would sort slides for AV using a light box. Surely what is required now is a separate programme which would give you thumbnails of an acceptable size, such as provided in InfanView or Windows XP, and a capability of repositioning or dropping as in Al's PTE Adjustor. The final selection order to be "frozen" and transferred en bloc to P2E.

Ron [uK]

[Danabw]

There isn't a simple answer for this, obviously. People use PTE differently and thus would desire different thumbnail implementations...

Some of us create folders for slideshows, putting the desired images there, even rearranging and renaming them in that folder. Then they start PTE and go from there.

At the other end of the spectrum (closer to where I live) others may work from anywhere from one to quite a few folders, adding images to the slide list from the file list. In that case, the images will only ever exist together in the slideshow.

And some, I'm sure, use either method (or something in between) depending on their mood, number of images, the phase of the moon.... :-) So Igor isn't likely going to be able to make all of us (equally) happy.

That having been said, here's what would float my boat:

- Add a button or menu selection to open a secondary PTE window for either the File list or the Slide list. (Same basic window display functionality, just feed it the listing of the images contained in the list that has focus.) That window shows all images in thumbnails (small/med/large or slider size options!?) . Displays thumbnails w/their file name below them.

- File list: If the window is opened from the File list, then its function is to provide a view of the thumbnails in that current folder and allow adding them to the show. Allows scrolling up and down, selecting thumbnails (single, multiple, shift-click ranges and ctrl-click) and an "add to show" button to add selected thumbnails to the slide list.

- If the window is opened from the Slide list, then it allows the same range of thumbnail selection options, only in this case the selected images may be deleted from the show, moved to a new location in the show, or a custom slide setting may be assigned to them. (I.e., select five thumnails and change their transition duration.)

I know that may be much more than was being considered, but I prefer to request a full loaf, rather than 1/2 or 1/3.

As to whether this is more important than other things Igor is working on, I would say (for me) no. Igor's addition of the "preview from here" option makes it a breeze to quickly look at a section of your show, and I can live w/that level of functionality for now. What I really want are:

- Usability: The most important usability feature that PTE is missing for me right now is multiple selections on the Slide list. If that was added in the Slide list's current text only format that would be a huge boon in terms of being able to delete/move/adjust multiple slides in a show at one time. (Even if only the delete and move functionality could be applied that would be great). Even if you do prepare outside PTE and pre-organize your slides (as I have sometimes) it is very common to find that as you view the show your ideas change a bit and you want to move things around. And if, like me, you often develop shows from multiple folders directly in PTE, being able to move and delete groups of slides would be a tremendous improvement. Now, if Igor added the thumbnail view of the Slide list and included the ability to select multiple and move, etc., as I described above, then that would be a double win.

- Output: The most important other option for me would be the ability to output an AVI from PTE, for use in creating DVDs (and I know others want this option to create VCDs and SVCDs). That is the way the industry is headed, and is PTE's most glaring functionality gap compared to the competition at this point. Providing AVI output would put PTE back into competition w/tools that offer PC and TV slideshow output.

So, 1) Add multiple selects/delete/move to the current Slide list: 2) Add AVI output; and 3) Then go back to work on thumbnail views.

Of course, this is all just my humble opinion....but in my mind I'm right!

Dana

[ronwil]

I too assemble all my images for a particular project in one folder. I then add them all to the Slide List and using my standard Template give them a run through. Some I will delete; some I may go back into Photoshop for further editing; and some I will re-position either directly by drag and drop or occasionally by using Bill's PTE Adjustor. Finally it is a question of fine adjustment using the timeline.

As my interest is AV presentations to small audiences of say 30 to 100, my sequences seldom exceed 100 slides and are more likely to average 50 so my needs are not that great. However it would be nice to be able to view my project as though it were slides on a light box and make the adjustments from there. This can be done to an extent in Windows XP by looking at the Thumbnail version of the particular Image folder but any adjustments would have to be manually recorded for eventual use in P2E or by laboriously renaming all the images with a pre-fixed sequential order.

Ron [uK]

[Igor]

To alrobin

Preparing of thumbnails (on my Athlon XP 1600+ for pictures at 1024x768) takes only 300 ms. (1/3 of second) or so only 1/30 of second per each image. And it load in another thread, so interface is responsive anytime.

Because for small thumbnails we can load large JPEG image with scaling - 1:1, 1:2, 1:4 or 1:8. So loading can be in 8 times faster. In PTE v4.00 we've added this algorithm for the preview of pictures in the main window and Cust. synch. window.

To Dana

Yes, I also plan to work in same sequence.

Thanks.

[alrobin]

That's great, Igor. All of the other thumbnail makers I've tried out take much longer than that. Sounds like you have found an ingenious algorithm! So, I think that is even more reason for you to add a complete light-table to PTE.

However, I agree with Dana that that is not the top priority - I would like to see more transition control on the timeline first.

[HaroldB]

Igor,

My feeling is that five or seven thumbnails would not be useful.

I currently use Microsoft's Photo Editor as a "poor man's light table". I open as many pictures as it will let me open at one time and then just move them around until I get them in the order I want. Being able to zoom in on a picture or minimize a picture is valuable, too.

It sounds to me like five or seven thumbnails would be a step backward. I'd vote for either doing it right or focusing on other things.

For the record, my number one suggestion now is to change the PTE slideshow display processing so that transitions that are too tight don't cause glitches when the slide show is run. And my number two suggestion is to allow us to change the transition type and duration from the synch window. And my number three suggestion is to allow simple animations a la PowerPoint.

Harold

[Tripstrilles]

Look here for possible thumbnail-mode:

http://www.j-k-s.com (it is possible to habe an explorer-mode and/or a thumbnail-mode)

http://www.aquasoftware.de/eng/as/index.asp (Diashow XP - thumbnails at the bottem)

The best for me is Kai´s Power-Show or ProShow Gold

For me it is very important to have thumbnail-mode, transition-control not.

[LumenLux]

Tripstrilles, I liked very much the idea that Kai had for thumbnail sorting - but I could not get it to work properly. Does it work right for you? If it does work, is there any way to export the sorted order so it could be used in PTE? (I have long ago gone from Kai to PTE for all shows.)

[cici]

Hi to everybody,

As for Alrobin, the most important feature I should like to have in PTE is to settle transitions from timeline. But what Dana says about “the ability to output to AVI from PTE” because this is “the way the industry is headed” it’s very important.

Anyway I think it’s not a priority matter: now or later thumbnails problem has to be faced: they have been requested and Igor has promised them. So, as Igor has this work on hand , just help him to do the right choice. I think it isn’t good to abandon this work for another feature because of a priority and come back later to it . But of course it belongs to Igor to decide about.

And about thumbnails, here is my wish:

I think the first choice of slides has to be made with whatever each one of us wants and put them in the same folder. Everybody is free to work as he likes but I think putting whatever interests a show (music, slides, comments, etc… ) in one folder is to be suggested because of

…back up project copy. (For my first show, as I knew very, very few about PTE, my music is coming from CD; pictures, from CD and different folders; now I need my project copy as I erased the original from my HD, but it’s useless)

From this folder, slides, I beg your pardon, thumbnails , will be transferred to slide list.

By dragging them, thumbnails will be transferred to main window where it will be possible to change their order just by dragging . The wish of possibility of thumbnails in the main window and dragging them to change the order has already been requested as “STORYBOARD” if I remember well.

[Tripstrilles]

@LumenLux:

Sorting with Kai´s PowerShow doesn´t works with PTE. But the thumbnail-mode would be a good template for a thumbnail-mode in PTE.

[bfreas]

Would it be more practical to add a thumbnail view to the timeline, and maybe even drag & drop rearrangeing (sp?) of thumbnails in the timeline? I know that's a lot to ask for....but maybe for a future version.

[Danabw]

Sam:

You said -

I think the first choice of slides has to be made with whatever each one of us wants and put them in the same folder. Everybody is free to work as he likes but I think putting whatever interests a show (music, slides, comments, etc… ) in one folder is to be suggested because of

…back up project copy. (For my first show, as I knew very, very few about PTE, my music is coming from CD; pictures, from CD and different folders; now I need my project copy as I erased the original from my HD, but it’s useless)

Maybe you haven't noticed this PTE feature...if you want a back-up of your project - all files including audio, icons, etc. - use the PTE Template feature. Creating a template creates a complete backup of all assets used in your current show. One old request of Igor was to update the template feature to allow us to select the output directory (currently it goes to C:\program files\pte\templates\project name), and/or create a kind of a copy of the template feature that would be called Project Backup (or whatever) which would allow us to specify a directory for the backup of the project.

So the desire to backup a project does not require that you move all show assets to a folder before you create a show - even now you can simply use the template feature and then move that folder to whereever you want to.

Dana

Dana