To animate or not to animate...

[fh1805]

The northern hemisphere summer is drawing to a close and that means the resumption of meetings of all the local photographic societies and camera clubs. I just know that at my own society I am going to get asked about PTEv5 and all its new features. If I am asked by the members:

When should I use animation?

How should I use animation?

Why should I use animation?

what am I going to tell them?

I've posted this to get some points of view other than my own. However, here are mine for what they're worth: It all depends...!!!

To my mind that sums it up. There is no black and white, right and wrong when answering these questions. But I do believe that there are some general points of guidance that will hold good in many situations.

1. Just because you now can do it doesn't mean you have to do it. Use the tools sparingly to add emphasis to a particular point.

2. If you are going to do it, do it at the right speed. Zooms can be done fairly quickly but slow zooms are also effective. Pans must be done slowly. Panning and zooming at the same time can be a particularly effective means of emphasising a particular aspect of an image.

3. Don't let the "packaging" get in the way of the "message". Unless you really want to show off how skilled you are with the PTEv5 features, don't go overboard and use everything there is in a single sequence. Be selective.

4. Remember, you are not making a movie. You are using apparent motion to add to the strength of your message. When watching a movie (at the cinema or at home on TV or DVD) take note of how the director uses panning and zooming. And whilst doing this, take care not to confuse tracking the subject with panning and zooming.

No doubt other forum members will have their own thoughts on this subject. I'd welcome your comments.

[d67]

1. Just because you now can do it...

2. If you are going to do it,...

3. Don't let the "packaging" get in the way of the "message"...

4. Remember, you are not making a movie...

I fully agree with your 4 points and will hardly find something to add !

Perhaps one point : pans or zooms should start and end by their first and last image, still for a few seconds.

I think there must be fulcrums.

Patrick

[bmccammon]

I agree entirely and think that Patrick's addition is a good one. Thanks for summarizing this so nicely.

[jfa]

1. Just because you now can do it doesn't mean you have to do it.

2. If you are going to do it, do it at the right speed.

3. Don't let the "packaging" get in the way of the "message".

4. Remember, you are not making a movie.

Peter these are very valuable points to keep in mind particular number four. Many authors forget that Audiovisuals are a medium in their own right and try to produce/copy a movie. In AVs the subject dose not move, the viewpoint can.

As I have posted in other topics in this forum:

"As a general rule for any effect subtlety is the key word, where a little will have much more impact than a lot".

Patrick's point is also valid.

[cjdnzl]

Very slow zooms, almost subliminal, on subjects like landscapes can add interest to a completely static image. When in real life a subject catches one's interest, the mind focuses on what is being viewed, a sort of mental zoom if you like. A very slow zoom of an image, maybe only a 5% zoom over 10 or so seconds, can mimic the effect of mind-focusing, and allow a longer duration of the slide without boring the audience. Well done, the zoom is not noticed by the viewer, but induces a greater interest in the image.

Colin

[Barry Beckham]

Perhaps one point : pans or zooms should start and end by their first and last image, still for a few seconds.

I think there must be fulcrums.

Patrick

Sorry Patrick I don't agree at all.

Apart from some picture in picture techniques or animated text, I don't think animation looks good at all when it starts and stops before the transitions.

I think an animated slide show has far more charm when the next image gently appears on screen while the movement is progressing. We don't have to see every inch of the panned image to get the effect and most of the zooms I see are wildly over done to the point that the image is broken up and ugly.

The whole point of AV is to create something that has a charm to it, something that creates a mood if possible and something that flows well on screen. It is supposed to captivate the viewer and in my view (there are exceptions of course) images with the animation starting, stopping and zooming all over the screen destroy any chance of that.

Remember these effects add nothing to the quality of your work and they are not a substitute for it.

We will all over use animation a bit, especially while it is new and fresh, that’s life. The question we need to ask ourselves as we open the Objects and animation screen is "What is my proposed animation going to do for the slide show"

I guess a lot of the time we may have some trouble answering that and if we do, perhaps we should leave that image static.

[Lmoreels]

I fully agree with Patrick

If you zoom in a picture there are imaginary lines to the center of the image.

If jou replace the center to the point of interest (chift key) in the images, the attention of the viewer will

be taken to that point.

Luc M

[d67]

Patrick

Sorry Patrick I don't agree at all.

Apart from some picture in picture techniques or animated text, I don't think animation looks good at all when it starts and stops before the transitions.

I think an animated slide show has far more charm when the next image gently appears on screen while the movement is progressing. We don't have to see every inch of the panned image to get the effect and most of the zooms I see are wildly over done to the point that the image is broken up and ugly.

... yes but the master word in your sentence "when the next image gently appears" is gently.

If I suggested a stop at one or each end of the animation sequence it is because a lot of current slideshows are linking up zooms and pans without any chance to take again his breath !

Currently, creating a slideshow without any pan and zoom seems to be a sign of senility or pshychological rigidity

[ksf]

Some very valid points raised by all, and I suspect this will be one of those topics that runs and runs...

Use of any special effect (transition or motion) will have greater impact in your show if you use it sparingly and appropriately. Use an effect (or a gimmick) too often and the whole purpose of it becomes diluted to the point where you may actually turn your audience off. For example, I have seen many ProShow sequences where every image zooms in or out while fading. I just find them uncomfortable to watch, not just because every image is using the same effect but because often the quality of the image breaks up while it is zooming. At least with PTE the image quality will be consistent but I hope we don't reach the same stage where people think every image should be animated.

I think Peter's first point sums it all up - "Just because you now can do it doesn't mean you have to do it." and at the end of point 3 he uses 2 key words that actually speak volumes - "Be selective".

With regards to panning, this is a tricky one. If you stop to think about how we view a scene we don't actually stand still and turn our heads in a smooth continuous motion with everything staying in the same perspective or focal plane. If we do 'pan' it is because we have focussed in on a particular point of interest, something that is moving within the background scene (eg a car, motorbike, aircraft, an attractive person, etc, you get my point...) in which case the centre of interest is moving at a different speed to the surroundings, and we may also be moving at the same time. One other point to note is that when you look at something then your eyes jump about from one part of the view to another. Our eyes don't pan in a clinical fashion, and we tend to use differential focus to concentrate on something rather than zooming in on it.

So, should we be trying to mimic human vision, motion, or replicate video effects in PTE? I don't think so. Rather I think we need to think carefully about when and how we use motion within still images. Like Barry, I think we will see an initial over use of the animation effects but then we will begin to see some very creative uses for the new features.

At the end of the day, however, we need to ask ourselves "Do I want the audience to watch my images - or the special effects?".

[Lin Evans]

Let me just throw in my $02. for what it's worth.

I think we can't have "any" rigid rules for pans and zooms but rather tailor them to the mood and theme of the production. Sometimes movement is appropriate, sometimes not. Sometimes during a pan we may want to zoom, stop, resume, etc., and sometimes not. The way I see it is that the images and intent will guide the producer in determining what is appropriate or not.

What is appropriate for a slideshow about one subject may be inappropriate for another and we should let the content and what we wish to say help determine how we proceed. Just as with photography, we may have a "golden rule of thirds" but rules are not rigid and there are times when they "should" be broken.

Best regards,

Lin

[ksf]

Hi Lin,

I've seen many excellent photographs that have broken the "golden rule of thirds" (maybe they stood out for me because they did just that?).

As far as I'm concerned there are no such "golden rules" in AV and to a large extent anything goes. Whether or not someone chooses to use a particular effect(s) in their sequence is indeed entirely their choice and will depend on what impression, story, mood, impact, etc, they want to convey. Motion, however, is the one area that I feel needs to be used with extra care and probably only really used if it enhances the production. It's probably also the one topic that will generate the most feedback so I look forward to reading other people's thoughts and comments on the subject.

One thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that with v5 we now have an excellent palette of tools to work with and its up to the individual to decide when and how to use them.

[Barry Beckham]

I don't disagree with a word Lin has said, but what people know is right for a slide show is not what they appear to do. The result in my view is the exact opposite of what a slide show should do. It drives you away rather than inviting you to stay and I find myself reaching for the escape key more and more of late.

I don’t think any rules were trying to be laid down and if nothing else, the opinions expressed prove one thing perfectly.

You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not All of the people All of the time. One man’s meat etc

Every effect should be appropriate to the circumstances, but we are all human and we will all stray a little at times. If we are not careful when we are in full creative slide show mode something very odd happens to our senses.

An invisible mist descends upon us while we in this creative flow and it robs us of good taste and restraint. It prevents us from knowing when to stop a manipulation when working in Photoshop. It prevents us from seeing the obvious fact that the colour saturation is too high or the sharpness over done.

Its not unique to digital or PTE as it used to happen in the darkroom too. This mist descends under safelight conditions and prevents you from seeing the most obvious mistakes on the image you have just sweated blood over.

It’s the same mist that stops us seeing all the mistakes in that really creative letter or tutorial we have just written.

However, there is a solution, TIME. Just come back to what you thought was a brilliant masterpiece a day or so later when the mist has lifted and then you can sometimes wince at what you have done.

Once I complete a slide show I put it on my desktop and I will play it at least once a day while drinking a coffee. If you can sit through your slide show 10 times in a week and see no problems with it, you’re a better man (or woman) than me.

It is horses for courses though with any transitions and animation, but the majority of slide shows are what I term pictorial. They are the ones that suffer the most when the mist descends.

[Ken Cox]

couple years ago NEARLY everybody that was on the forum regularily had the hots for pan and zoom

we worked out butts off helping Igor achieve it -- i used 100+ dvd's between trying to get it right and then trying to burn it

we get it and now the criticism starts

-- during that couple years many people said p/z can be fine but DO NOT OVERDO IT

we also hear we want MORE FADES/TRANSITIONS

yet when was the last time we seen any of the special fades that Igor and crew developed

then Dom, Lin and a few others start developing Templates for us -- and what do we hear "thks but we want more"

Igor must have no hair left

hope you all have a quiet Labour Day

i going to go play in my sandbox

ken

[ksf]

Whoa, Ken,

None of the comments in this thread have aimed any criticism at PTE, nor Igor and his team, nor at the many people that have helped with PTE's development and testing over the past couple of years. Far from it, we are indebted to all concerned for giving us such a great product.

I think the position we are now in is like kids in a candy store. We are overawed by what's on offer and we want to try everything in the store. All this thread is trying to point out is that we perhaps need to exercise some restraint when making a show and to choose which, and how many, of the various effects to include in any one show with moderation.

[Ken Cox]

Keith

-- during that couple years many people said p/z can be fine but DO NOT OVERDO IT-- during that couple years many people said p/z can be fine but DO NOT OVERDO IT

your quote

Imagination is more important than knowledge"

many moons ago a Bell and Howell rep told me that the only 2 things that will stop one in the quest of learning Photography is your imagination and your wallet!

i think it holds true for a lot of things in life

ken

[Barry Beckham]

Imagination is more important than knowledge

Now there is a powerful statement, that sums it all up in my view. You can find out the technical bits easy enough when you need them, but imagination....I am not so sure about that. Is that something your either have or you don't?

I know some really knowledgable and technically superb photographers, but imagination.. No

[jevans]

This thread sums up what is so good about this forum - an interesting and relevant topic with a wide range of disparate views. The subject has been occupying my mind also in creating recent shows since Version 5 was finished. The facilities available are great but deciding when to use them is much more difficult. I particularly support Lin's view that the content should dictate what facilities you apply.

[JudyKay]

You guys focus a lot on the professional world. Many P2E purchasers may not be professionals. I am not a professional. But I love tinkering with many of the things P2E will do. That is why I bought the program. Most my slide shows aren't worthy of being posted, but they are still really cool and fun. Family and friends love them.

The rules you provide as a result of your experience and knowledge are great guidelines for those of us who are learning. Applying healthy imagination along with general guidelines results in some really awesome slide shows.

Here are some pet peeves:

1. Slide shows that move too slowly. Better to have it go a bit fast and make folks want to see it again.

2. P/Z that make you dizzy.

3. P/Z that leaves you wondering what the point of the picture was.

Pet Likes:

1. Bright shiny twirling objects now and then. Sometimes effects is what P2E is all about. Flaunt it! Think "The Dom."

2. Pictures that tell a story. Or a slide show that has a clear interesting story. Then leave out the shiny twirling stuff.

3. Fast or slow--depends on the context. Remember the fast jerky cool "Macarena" slide show? I loved it! It had a story I wanted to know.

I try not to think too much about what "I want" unless it is just for fun for me. (Lot of twirling shiny fading objects).

Better is to think what does my audience want. This is my gift to them.

Anyway Igor and you guys are my heroes. So keep up the good work.

jk

[ADB]

Now there's a breath of fresh air :-)

[davegee]

I would like to pick up on one point mentioned above with regard to WHEN to start or end a PZR effect.

After much tinkering I have come to the conclusion that I prefer to see a PZR effect continue whilst fading into the next image which, if it contains a PZR effect, is moving whilst fading in.

It is the stop/start part that annoys me when using PZR. However, when the audience starts requesting sea-sickness pills I know that I have gone too far!!

Watch how some of the better cinematographers handle these effects - there is much to be learnt there.

As for the other points, speed of PZR effect is determined by the subject BUT my preference is for S L O W effects.

DaveG

[Ronniebootwest]

You guys focus a lot on the professional world. Many P2E purchasers may not be professionals. I am not a professional. But I love tinkering with many of the things P2E will do. That is why I bought the program. Most my slide shows aren't worthy of being posted, but they are still really cool and fun. Family and friends love them.

jk

The sentements expressed here are wonderful and a lot of forum members will be able to relate to them. I agree wholeheartedly with you Judy. I find some of the statements made by the 'professionals' hard to understand sometimes.

A slide show should always be fun to the producer and if that same slide show receives praise from others, then that is a bonus. Judy if you, your family and friends enjoy your slide shows, then you have achieved your goal. I reckon that you are underselling your ability, please post one of your shows on Beechbrook so we can see what you have done.

Ron

[volker]

Hello, I'm just a rookie with PTE and maybe I tend do a bit too much with

animation (it can be a good point - don't do it just because it can be

done) maybe I can add another aspect to the pan/zoom discussion.

*panorama pictures* - when showing them, pan/zoom can really make

sense. I usually show the full panorama at the beginning (showing a

small stripe in the middle, big black areas on bottom & top of the screen)

and pause for at least 5 seconds, then I move to the left-side of the

panorama while zooming it to full screen hight, then pausing again.

Then I slowly move to the right side of the panorama, pausing again

when the end is reached.

I do not dare to suggest an «interactive zoom mode» to Igor where an

"over-sized" picture is displayed cropped to the screen size and the

viewer can zoom in/out by pressing + or - keys and move the part

shown using the arrow keys :-) so the user could decide himself which

part to see and where to zoom until time is up and the next slide is

shown ;-) in my slide shows I decide as author of the show as described

above which pan/zoom is best for showing my panoramas... when there

is any motion in the panorama (a river, traffic on a street going in a

specific direction) I would generally recommend to follow that direction

...

Rgds, Volker