Monitor profile problem?

[Igor]

Al,

As I've understood color shift occurs in versions 5.0, 5.1 and special test slideshow? In other words new ATI gamma fix doesn't make it worse that it was before? It helped cure gamma on other ATI video cards and no effect on one ATI video card?

[alrobin]

Al,

As I've understood color shift occurs in versions 5.0, 5.1 and special test slideshow? In other words new ATI gamma fix doesn't make it worse that it was before? ....

Yes, the shift occurs in all of versions 5.0, 5.1, and the special test show. However, in this case it's a shift in overall brightness, not only a single colour. The shift is exagerated to make the test more obvious, as can be clearly seen in the screen photos in my previous post.

I intentionally chose a gamma correction that would show up very dramatically if it were present, and it definitely does change when the test show begins, or when I click on "alt-tab" or "Windows" or anywhere on my second monitor. It's not a correction that I normally use, so the "shift" is not a problem for me. I normally use the default setting, so normally this shift is not a problem.

[alrobin]

Igor,

I think I may have found a clue as to my findings.

If I change the gamma in the ATI "colour" panel (in "Display / Settings / Advanced"), then the test slideshow has no adverse effect on the display. However, if I change the gamma in "Adobe Gamma" on the Control Panel, it does make a difference. It's the latter that I have been reporting on.

[Igor]

Al,

Thanks for details!

Yes you discovered one case which I couldn't fix - when use together adjusting of gamma/brightness/contrast in ATI control panel and in Adobe Gamma, and other calibration tools.

It happens because ATI control panel uses alternate ways to change gamma and no way to determine who changed gamma last time - ATI control panel or Adobe Gamma loader.

The problem not in Adobe Gamma, but in ATI control panel and in ATI drivers.

How you consider can we include this fix to PicturesToExe in its current state if it can cure gamma settings in all other cases?

[xahu34]

Hello,

I compared v.5.04 and the test program on an old PC (WinXP, SP2, new version of DirectX) with Rage 128 card and driver from end of 2001:

No difference if no profile is loaded. After loading a profile with Adobe gamma loader, a difference could be noticed. ATI panel has default values.

But: In any case the images looked significantly brighter compared with IrfanView (even if no profile is loaded)

Regards,

xahu34

Munich

[alrobin]

After loading a profile with Adobe gamma loader, a difference could be noticed. ATI panel has default values.

But: In any case the images looked significantly brighter compared with IrfanView (even if no profile is loaded)

Yes, that is what I found too.

Igor, it seems to pose a difficult problem - however, since PTE seems to adjust for gammas which are set via the ATI colour panel then maybe everyone should attempt to use this for monitor calibration in the future. Maybe a note in the "Help" file could instruct users to use this utility instead of Adobe Gamma in the Control Panel in the case of ATI video cards.

[RayC]

Hi All,

I have only just niticed this test and seeing that I have a ATI Radion x300 se Graphics card thought i should give it a try and Wow what a difference its really good, Looking foreward to the Upgrade.

One thing Al or anyone afraid I am a late learner with computers so could any one please explain how would we go about setting this up to calibrate the Monitor.

Thanks Ray

[Igor]

Al,

Please say me what date of your ATI drivers?

(Control Panel | System | Device Manager | Video card, Drivers tab)

[RayC]

Igor,

My ATI Radion X300 se Date is 3/11/ 2004

Ray

[Igor]

Ray,

Thanks, probably I can improve this fix in this case.

[xahu34]

Hello,

just an additional remark to my message from last night to make things more clear. At least for my

former, very old PC (with rage 128, no calibration via ATI panel) there are 2 probably independent

effects which can be can be noticed:

1. During the period where a PTE-exe runs, a profile loaded by Adobe Gamma, say, is not used.

2. There is an additional shift in brightness, if a profile is loaded or not.

The new PTE-Test-Exe seems to reload the lost profile, i.e. it solves problem 1, but not problem 2.

Question: Is the brightness shift only a problem for old ATI cards? Al's Radeon card isn't that new either.

Regards,

xahu34

Munich

[alrobin]

Al,

Please say me what date of your ATI drivers?

.......................

Most of the drivers still in use are dated either 21/11/2006 or 19/10/2006. A small number are dated 21/10/2003.

[Urmas]

Profile fix works fine on ATI Mobility Radeon 9600/9700 series.

[Igor]

We plan to apply ATI gamma fix only when you adjust desktop gamma via Adobe Gamma Loader and/or special professional color calibration tools. And this solution will be presented in version 5.11

But if you adjust colors in ATI control panel, we can't handle this case, because it is not determined who changes gamma settings - ATI drivers or Adobe Gamma loader.

The complete solution will be possible when ATI at last fixes this gamma bug.

[alrobin]

We plan to apply ATI gamma fix only when you adjust desktop gamma via Adobe Gamma Loader and/or special professional color calibration tools. And this solution will be presented in version 5.11

But if you adjust colors in ATI control panel, we can't handle this case, because it is not determined who changes gamma settings - ATI drivers or Adobe Gamma loader.

Igor,

Just to make sure I understand you, are you saying you are going to provide a solution different from the one in your test file provided in an earlier post? (That one works for me if I apply calibration using the ATI control panel, NOT the Adobe Gamma utility.)

[Igor]

Al,

Yes, in your case it will not work.

The problem that even Windows Color Management (desktop gamma) contains logical problems. For example, Windows forget and reset desktop gamma after restarting of Windows and color calibration software (Adobe Gamma Loader) have to load gamma profile again. But if you adjust gamma in ATI control panel, ATI software at this moment also tries to load own gamma profile.

And if you use color profiles in Adobe Gamma loader and adjust brightness in ATI control panel, I don't know who changed desktop gamma.

I can detect that you adjusted colors in ATI control panel, but I can't detect that you use color calibration software. Because of this I have no way as do nothing if you adjust colors in ATI control panel to prevent setting of incorrect gamma in some cases.

I'm still working on this problem, but it would be better if we could write email to a person in ATI who could responses on this problem and solve it at all.

[alrobin]

I understand. I wrote to ATI once, but did not receive a reply. Will try to get through to them again. They have been taken over by a large foreign company, so I doubt if I'll get any response. They don't seem to operate according to the same professional ethics as you do! :-))

[Igor]

Thanks, Al

I hope to find some better solution, probably I'll find a way how to correctly fix gamma and in case of your PC.

[Peter S]

Hi Al,

I have seen one or two articles that suggest that Adobe Gamma is not a very suitable tool for calibrating LCD monitors. I certainly found it "not very helpful" and now use a Spyder 2 as several other people seem to do. I am not sure if this has any relevance to your issues but I would appreciate any comments that you have on Gamma and LCDs.

Kind Regards

Peter

[alrobin]

Thanks, Peter.

I have heard the same thing about LCD monitors, but I have found mine pretty true, and haven't had to do any more than just minor tweaking (mainly for brightness). I have used a Spyder on my old CRT's, but don't own one myself.

[JohnB]

Adobe Gamma loader must be disabled if you are using a hardware calibrator/profiler like Spyder or EyeOne. If you don't you have two profiles 'fighting' each other. The easiest way I've found to be sure that Adobe Gamma loader is disabled is to change its extension from exe to exf. I expect that more skilled computer buffs will know a more elegant way.

[Nordlicht]

Hi Igor,

I've installed the last version (it seem's to be 5.11) and have the problem with this version.

Hardware ATI Radeon 3850

driver : 8.453.0.0 (22.01.2008)

Is the ATI Gamma Fix applied in this version ?

Thanks

Nordlicht

[xahu34]

Hi Igor,

I've installed the last version (it seem's to be 5.11) and have the problem with this version.

Hardware ATI Radeon 3850

driver : 8.453.0.0 (22.01.2008)

Is the ATI Gamma Fix applied in this version ?

Thanks

Nordlicht

Diese Frage habe ich auch schon gestellt. Die Antwort ist leider: Nein (The answer is: No)

Grüße in den hohen Norden

Xaver

München