Virus Protection - Norton versus AVG

[mightec]

Morning Peter

I tend to agree with you, the reason I am looking for a possible change is totally unrelated, I am having problems with the new BBC iPlayer. I cannot get it to stream and thought that this may have something to do with Norton. I can now use the Download option, but it takes an age.

[Ronniebootwest]

Hello Mike,

I have been where you are! Some 2 years ago I was using the Norton Internet security package and ran into all sorts of problems, so with the help and advice from Brian Conflow, I removed it completely and installed Norton Antivirus full package. (Internet security only includes a watered down version of NAV).

Norton Anivirus has served me well for the last 2 years but, just recently started to give me problems, e.g. system crashes and very slow running PC. After doing some homework on internet forum, I made the decicion to abandon Norton altogether. (it uses far too much of the system resources). Again with the advice of Brian Conflow, I uninstalled and went for AVG and, so far, I am impressed.

Ron

[mightec]

HI Peter & Ron

Yes, Ron I have followed your progress, hope that it continues to go well for you. Peter, I have persevered with Norton and I have now got the BBC iPlayer to stream, it was all in the set-up Norton Internet Security, having read the BBC Message Board I was able to correct the problem, its now working OK and my wife can now watch missed programmes to her heart content.

[Guest Auser]

"Now if you want it to execute 'Repairs' you must pay for this or exit the Program"

companies that practice sort of crap should be in the bait and switch category

ken

I disagree. This is not bait & switch at all. Its a limited demo. How is this any different than P2E limiting you on the number of slides or a company putting a banner on the output and then telling you that you need to pay to remove the banner or to make a complete show ? They dont advertise something and then give you something completely different.

[d67]

I have downloaded and installed the FREE version of AVG and intend running it for a short while to see how it goes o so far I am impressed with what I am seeing. I wonder if it is worth the small additional cost of purchasing the full 'pro' version, any suggestions???

Hi Ron

Perhaps this Anti-virus comparative report will be of some help for your search of the best product for your personal needs.

[Ronniebootwest]

Hi Ron

Perhaps this Anti-virus comparative report will be of some help for your search of the best product for your personal needs.

Hello Patrick,

Many thanks for the link to this report. I am studying it page by page. Already I am concerned to note that AVG is way down the list!

Ron

[Conflow]

Ron and Readers,

Please be extremely careful about this report:-

"Anti-virus comparative report will be of some help for the best product for your personal needs...."

This 'Comparitive Report' is purely based on the premise of:-"On-Demand AV Scanners" meaning that

you personally are executing a "Manual Scan of your PC" with one or another of the listed Programs.

ODS means = On-Demand Scanner

I consider this 'Report' to be misleading because it has ignored the following 'critical' Factors which

must be evaluated when considering an effective AV Program.

1)

A good AV Program must provide LIVE 'On-Line Protection' for EMail and the Web. (Many ODS will not)

2)

A good AV Program MUST PROVIDE 'Start-up' Memory Scanning and Boot-Sector Scanning.(ODS will not)

3)

A good AV program must 'Intergrate' with any resident Firewall on the PC. (Many ODS will not intergrate)

5)

Numeric-Detection Performance is not a valid yardstick,because:-

The 'SpyNet Community' has listed and signatured over +375,000 Infections of one form or another.

It is an impossibility to download ALL of the respective 'definitions' consequently 'Heuristic Techniques'

are use to define those of similar patterns/objectives. Depending on the goodness of the Heuristics will

dictate the effectiveness of the AV Program in detecting 'families' of infections and its resistance to many

'False-Positives'. AV Manufacturers do not share this critical data for obvious reasons.

6)

Do AV-Programs Deteriorate?...Yes like all Programs,AV Programs certainly deteriorate over time. There are

many reasons for this:- some are man-made, some are machine errors, others are software & update errors.

Conclusions

In the absence of a Firewall a really good AV Program should provide a simple 'Firewall' and an 'AV Program'

and 'Live On-Line Protection' and 'Start-Up Scanning'.This is an excellent product even though it may have

small limitations.

17 Programs were Listed in the 'Comparitive Report' ~ many of these are simple 'On-Demand Scanners' with

the limitations Listed above ~ Others provide the ALL the utilities Listed....therefore how can one compare

"Like-v-Like" when there are fundamental differences in the Listings ??

Brian.Conflow.

[JEB]

Thanks yet again Brian for your input.

I must admit that I, like Ron, had been a little concerned when I looked at that report.

The service provided by ALL who participate in this forum is very much appreciated by those of us not equipped to take these important decisions unaided. I personally find the input of differing views most interesting and hopefully I'm learning!

Regards

John

[Ronniebootwest]

Ron and Readers,

Please be extremely careful about this report:-

are

many reasons for this:- some are man-made, some are machine errors, others are software & update errors.

Conclusions

In the absence of a Firewall a really good AV Program should provide a simple 'Firewall' and an 'AV Program'

and 'Live On-Line Protection' and 'Start-Up Scanning'.This is an excellent product even though it may have

small limitations.

17 Programs were Listed in the 'Comparitive Report' ~ many of these are simple 'On-Demand Scanners' with

the limitations Listed above ~ Others provide the ALL the utilities Listed....therefore how can one compare

"Like-v-Like" when there are fundamental differences in the Listings ??

Brian.Conflow.

Hello Brian,

Thankyou. yet again, for your valuable input. Your comments have allayed my fears somewhat and I now feel more confident about AVG. I know that Ken Cox has used it regularly and, apart from a few reported 'False Positives', he says that it works well for him. I also know of a good few other members of this forum who recommend it.

I have tried the FREE version but now feel that I would like to have more control over the program so am trying the 30 day trial - this does seem more user friendly and allows me the control that I desire, e.g. I want to run full system scans when I choose and not every day, as the free version appears to want to do.

I would be interested in any other members view on this particular virus scanning package.

Ron

[Peter S]

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for all the information you have already provided on this topic. I would like to add yet another question.

Can you please put me (and possibly others) right on the influence the use of a router has on all this. I have used Zone Alarm for some time - Firewall, AV and Spyware plus several of your previously recommended stand alone products such as Xsoft.. The Firewall log used to show numerous alerts. I recently installed a firewall and now the Zone Alarm alerts have stopped. The router manual (It's a Netgear) says that it uses two rules:

Inbound: Block all access from outside except responses to requests from the LAN side.

Outbound: Allow all access from the LAN side to the outside.

I assumed that this is why the Zone Alarm alerts have stopped?

Would it be true to say that the router provides the best facility for blocking unwanted traffic and is "better" than a software firewall? Or have I fallen for a good sales pitch?

Kind regards

Peter

[Conflow]

Peter,

You are absolutely correct ~ when one is using Win '98se or Win 2000 its absolutely vital to use

a Hardware Firewall such as found in modern Lan-Routers. The one I recommend is 'Sitecom' for

Wired Broadband suppliers such as NTL ~ (From Maplin). You use 'NetGear' which is also excellent.

Also with Win '98se or 2000 I would suggest to PC owners that they should install a (secondary)

Software Firewall ~ but one has to be very careful about choice. If the PC has a a small User/Ram

Memory,say less than 256.mB ~ then I would suggest the 'NetVeda Firewall' (Size 5mB} also great

for '98se and 2000 Laptop/Portables with small Memory.

If the Win '98se or 2000 has larger Memory ++256.mB then 'Zone Alarm' or 'Comodo' are ideal.

With Radio Routers,most of these already have a inbuilt resident Firewall, which effectively is

a Hardware Firewall similar to the Sitecom Wired Lan-Firewall.

When using XP or Vista there is a pre-installed Software Firewall which is very effective but much

more so when used with a 'LAN Hardware Firewall'..Sitecom & Netgear Routers has such Firewalls.

That effectively takes care of Communications and rogue EMails and rogue Web Connection but

can still leave the PC open to embedded 'script-attacks' this is where a good Anti-Virus Program is

so necessary. Its also needed to 'auto-scan' CD-Discs, Floppies, and Memory Pens etc;

Finally its always a good idea to have 'secondary defences' stored away in a Folder which can be

activated on demand ~ these MUST NOT appear on the Start Menu, but should be activated from

within their respective Folders. Products such as Ad-Aware, XoftSpy, SpyBot, Wincare-Iobit are

ideal.

Anything on the 'Start-Menu' can be attacked on Boot-Up from within the Temp.Directories because

thats where these 'infections' reside awaiting to be activated at next Boot-Up. Thats why its so crucial

to allow the PC to perform an 'Intelligent Start-Up Scan' OR an 'Intelligent Close-Down Scan'.

Your Zone-Alarm is still working O.K, its just that your Hardware Firewall is so effective that Zone

Alarm is simply ticking over, but still on guard...you have a nice system there.

Brian.Conflow.

[Peter S]

Hi Brian,

Many thanks for your detailed and comforting reply. I have been told I am a bit paranoid about my PC security but it is good to know that everything is working and my system is sound. I very much appreciate the time you spend advising us all on these issues.

Kind regards

Peter

[mightec]

I know that this thread started with Ronnie's request for help in removing Norton Anti-Virus and installing something better.

I would just like to put a word in for Symantec - Norton. I very foolishly, downloaded a piece of software called Backdoor, in doing so I found a virus on my machine called backdoor sdbot bkv which I could not remove completely from my system. Evertime I thought that I had removed it, when I rebooted my machine it was there again. Each time it disabled Norton AntiVirus. In desperation I contacted the Norton Customer Services and they spent the best part of 7 hours sorting out the problem for a fix fee of £69.99.

All self inflected I know, but they really pulled out all of the stops and solved my problem. Thanks Symantec.

[Conflow]

Hi Mike,

I had wondered had anybody else picked-up this 'Nasty'...piece of...&£$%*

It origionally came out in 2002. Titled: "Backdoor SdBot BKV Trojan" but in

reality in 2008 this is a 'bogus' title selected to defeat most Anti-Virus Programs

as the declared title is already 'listed' in virus-definitions and your NAV thinks it

had blocked it, but in reality it crippled Norton and others...why ?

Its one of those NSIS Power Ads which was spawned on the Open.Org and

now rewritten in Java and thats why NAV and others didn't recognise it.

And yes, it does take over your Home/Search Page once it downloads a

simple Java applet which creates 2~3 copies of itself to effect the Hijack.

Comment:-A very simple but clever piece of work indeed.

Norton went down,so did others ~ but XoftSpy got it ~ but couldn't remove

it until they came up with 2 updates, one at 4:00pm and the next at 6:30pm.

NAV got it sorted somewhere about the same time.

Just keep your eye on your Home/Search Page for the next few days.

Just shows there is no such thing as 100% protection...

Brian.Conflow.

[mightec]

Hello Brian

How you describe it is how it was, XoftSp, warned me that my Home page or Google search had been affected by a virus. I have now changed my Home page to my own website instead of this Forum. I am doing a regular search with XoftSp, but thanks for the advise.

[Conflow]

Mike,

In case you forgot ?...you need to change the settings of XoftSpy

to accomodate your new Home/Search Page...this is important.

"See Attachment"

Brian.Conflow.

[mightec]

Brian

Yes I have done so, thanks.

[crystyignat]

Hi,

I am using as an antivirus Bit Defender which is very very good. It gets update daily and doesn't consume a lot of memory. And I'm also using AdAlert - Remove Adware which has made my computer work much much faster after I did a clean up.

Cristian

[Ken Cox]

an example

Using Unigray Antivirus To Fix MonaRonaDona

http://billpstudios.blogspot.com/2008/03/u...rus-to-fix.html

ken

[dpearcePNG]

Just to add my two cents...

Until just recently, I was part of a help desk situation with over 600 computers, all using "Symantec Anti-Virus Corporate Edition" which is the business version of NAV. When I came on board four years ago they had been using it for several years. I have also been a big proponent of Norton AV and have used it (until this year) exclusively.

All of us in the computer support area got together and decided that Symantec the past three years was getting harder and harder to support. Machines we're slowing down and the uninstall could be a nightmare. Eight out of ten would uninstall fine. One would require some extra registry clean-up. The tenth one required full-on registry hacking to remove it. The built-in uninstall program is a joke. I considered writing my own uninstall program, it was that bad. The uninstall documents on the Symantec website were 3-5 pages for each version. Needless to say we torched a few Windows installs (with trained guys even).

They switched to AVG completely last year, even losing the last year of their Symantec support contract. From what I have heard, they are extremely happy they made the switch.

I have AVG on my three computers and have so many weird problems have disappeared, I can't help but say it was the Symantec/Norton AV.