What PTE can do

[thedom]

Hi all,

For those of you who didn't visited my website recently (or don't even know that it exists ), I released 4 new demos :

Photo Album 2 pics

4 Pics Album

Compo Slide

Carousel 2

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dom,

Magnificent! Anyone who hasn't taken the time to get over to your site and see these presentations needs to do so and be prepared to be blown away!

Best regards,

Lin

[Lin Evans]

Let me put in my $02 about this as well. Dominic as well as many others have freely given of their time and experience and created many useful add-on templates, audio-visual tutorials, tips and techniques and insights on how to use PTE and make it an even more valuable tool for the presentation of our images and ideas.

It's wonderful how many have contributed to help those who have either less time to devote or less technical inclinations to quickly learn to use this great software, but time and knowledge are indeed valuable and to expect one to continue to contribute it's only fair to compensate them at some point when their efforts go way above and beyond the norms.

thDom and others have spent countless hours developing tools which help others to more easily learn or more easily create beautiful animations and slideshow productions. In order to continue to contribute in the same way time must be taken from other projects, some of these being projects which help feed our families and pay the bills.

Offering templates, tutorials, audio-visuals and other enhancements to PTE for sale in no way detracts from the freely given advice and help people have contributed to this end, but rather offers those who would prefer to have these additional advantage yet another option. I've had numerous emails asking for a series of detailed audio-visual tutorials on PTE to speed the learning process. I've always directed those inquiries to this forum or to theDom's for additional help, but I too have decided that to really do justice to this I needed to create a comprehensive set of AVI audio-visual tutorials and offer them for a reasonable price. To that end I have created a new website dedicated to teaching others to use PTE.

Is there a problem with advertising these services on this forum? It's a good question. The tutorials, theDom's templates, Barry Beckham's PTE CD tutorials, Ron West's PDF tutorials, my audio-visual AVI's etc., all are essentially useless unless one purchases or owns PTE so my reasoning is that advertising these services via the forum benefits Wnsoft as much as it benefits the person selling the product. The more add-on's and help which is available, the easier it is to learn and USE PTE and the more people will be attracted to the product.

Jeff, Ray and I have created a User's Guide which at 130 pages is pretty comprehensive, but it was based on 5.0 and there have already been significant changes. We elected to wait until 5.2 is released to do a major update but some are confused when they try to use the existing guide because of the differences. Part of my decision to offer audio-visual tutorials for sale is based on the fact that I know I will be spending many more hours in the future working on this and other PTE related projects. This takes time away from my regular income producing work and to be able to stay current on changes and have a comprehensive understanding of the product I need to spend more time working with PTE. The tutorials will hopefully allow me to somewhat compensate for my loss of other income and still continue to contribute to the forum in the way I have in the past.

Comments are welcome....

Best regards,

Lin

[wideangle]

There are two issues coming into this discussion now.

1. Charging for templates and tutorials.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

If the work is good enough, and useful, then the author deserves some reward for his/her efforts - good luck to them.

Indeed, I have purchased a few items myself recently, and think that they are worth every penny (or cent!).

2. Advertising within the Forum.

This is a different kettle of fish altogether.

A forum is for the discussion and sharing of ideas, not for lining one's pocket.

As nobeefstu says, there is already a vehicle within the Wnsoft site under the P2E product link, which points you in the direction of numerous resources, and which includes commercial sites. Some members include web addresses in their forum signatures as well. That should be enough in my opinion.

wideangle.

[Lin Evans]

So then would you suggest that all tutorials and general help be moved to this location? We have links in the "tutorials" section of the website to the PTE Users Guide, Free Tutorials and such.

The purpose of tutorials, templates, PDF help guides and such are to serve as helpful tools to make the task of creating slideshows easier and to help people undstand how to use the software. The salient question is how many people even know the existence of the link to "Useful Resources?" Once you have purchased and installed the software, how many times do you suppose people actually visit the "Useful Resources" link which can only be reached via the "download" link?

Having help available is of little use if users don't know about it. I would be willing to bet that few who visit the forum are even aware of this link so the question is whether it's more important to be sure people are aware of the possibility of getting additional resources or protect the the "purity" of the forum from the evils of commercialization - LOL.

Actually, I doubt that theDom's pockets are being "lined" very well by the few Euros he may earn from his hard work. If I had not seen his post here, I would not have known anything about the fact that he had templates available for sale. Yes, his link is found at the "Useful Resources" but until today, as often as I have posted here (and that's been ever since there has been this forum - and before that on the one preceeding this one) even before PTE was first released years ago, I didn't know the "Useful Resources" link existed!

So would it really be more "useful" to visitors to have a reminder in the forum now and then or simply put the information on the user's website and provide a link in the "Useful Resources"? Believe me when I tell you that "nobody" is really lining their pockets by producing PTE templates, tutorials, associated programs, etc. If theDom were compensated by the hour for all the hours he has spent helping people learn to use PTE at the rate of one euro per hour he probably could buy a new car! If he were to release statistics about all the Euros he has made from his templates perhaps he could afford one nice meal and a bottle of wine in Paris!

I think the bottom line is that no one is trying to or is even likely to get rich by selling PTE associated templates, tutorials, programs, etc. They are only trying to be helpful, but beyond a certain point in order to do that they must decide whether the hours and hours they are spending have any value. If the answer is yes then then they need to receive some compensation. If no one knows that they have products and help available then their efforts are wasted and no one will ever benefit from the time, effort and knowledge they have put into creating the products.

So my point is that there needs to be a way to let the users of PTE know that there are not only free templates, tutorials, guides and programs available but that there are also other options which they may or may not want to avail themselves of. No one is twisting anyone's arm and forcing them to purchase templates, audio-visual tutorials, PDF files, useful program files, etc. But letting the forum members know that they are available via the forum seems to be more logical than just posting them in an obscure place which is rarely visited by the majority.

Comments welcome....

Best regards,

Lin

There are two issues coming into this discussion now.

snip

2. Advertising within the Forum.

This is a different kettle of fish altogether.

A forum is for the discussion and sharing of ideas, not for lining one's pocket.

As nobeefstu says, there is already a vehicle within the Wnsoft site under the P2E product link, which points you in the direction of numerous resources, and which includes commercial sites. Some members include web addresses in their forum signatures as well. That should be enough in my opinion.

wideangle.

[wideangle]

Hi Lin,

With respect, I think you are still clouding the issue.

If you check my first comment, I did say I actually support the idea of someone making money from their efforts.

I actually agree with much of what you say, but it is not relevant to the original point which provoked this discussion.

The original question posed was basically:

"Should someone with a commercial website use this forum as an advertising vehicle to promote it?"

Simply that, nothing more.

My view is that they shouldn't.

Now that does not mean to say that other members should not recommend sites and products in their comments in the forum. That is a different ethic entirely, and probably satisfies one of your concerns. Reviewing a product in the forum is one thing - selling it is a different thing.

I'm surprised that you weren't aware of the Resource links - maybe there is a case for requesting them to be made more prominent?

Regards,

wideangle.

[Lin Evans]

Hi Lin,

With respect, I think you are still clouding the issue.

If you check my first comment, I did say I actually support the idea of someone making money from their efforts.

I actually agree with much of what you say, but it is not relevant to the original point which provoked this discussion.

The original question posed was basically:

"Should someone with a commercial website use this forum as an advertising vehicle to promote it?"

Simply that, nothing more.

My view is that they shouldn't.

Now that does not mean to say that other members should not recommend sites and products in their comments in the forum. That is a different ethic entirely, and probably satisfies one of your concerns. Reviewing a product in the forum is one thing - selling it is a different thing.

I'm surprised that you weren't aware of the Resource links - maybe there is a case for requesting them to be made more prominent?

Regards,

wideangle.

[Lin Evans]

I'm surprised that you weren't aware of the Resource links - maybe there is a case for requesting them to be made more prominent?

Herein lies the issue. If I was unaware of the existence of this link on the site, how many others may also be unaware? Generally, I don't visit the "download" link once I have purchased and downloaded a product. Actually, PTE can be downloaded from so many different places including the forum and the opening page that I've never found it necessary to pursue each link. I'm not at all certain how long this "Useful Resources" place has been available on the site. Perhaps everyone else except me is aware of it and has visited, but even that doesn't completely satisfy the need for information. When new features are added to a website such as theDom's "Shop" there needs to be a vehicle to make people aware.

It's difficult to "review" a site or a product if one doesn't know it exists. Though I agree that it would be better to have a dedicated place to post current information about links and such, it should be in a conspicuous place rather than two levels removed (download, useful resources).

But back to my original question - should "all" tutorials, help, etc., be removed from the forum discussion or only the one's which are not "free"? If it's "O.K." to promote free tutorials, templates, etc., on the forum then what is the relevant difference in notifying forum users that other options also exist? Everyone loves something for nothing, it's human nature. So exactly "why" do you think it's not right to post a link to help which is available but not "free"? Notifying the public that somthing exists does not imply that they "must" visit the site or "purchase" anything, it just lets them know that a product exists. Is there really any substantive difference between theDom telling us that he has some free templates as well as templates for sale and Jeff or me or someone else telling the forum that he has free templates as well as templates for sale?

I think it would be a different issue if the content were about services or products not directly related to PTE. For example, if theDom were selling PhotoShop actions or Excel spreadsheets neither or which "directly" pertain to PTE and advertising that on the PTE forum it would be a slightly different thing. If Barry Beckham were advertising his Wedding photographer lessons on CD on the PTE forum it would be quite different than telling people he has CD and DVD tutorials on how to use PTE available. In the one case it's advertising to bring people to a site for a quite different purpose than helping them learn PTE. In the other its a product "directly" involved with PTE and something people probably would want to be aware of even if they had no particular desire to purchase the product? See the difference?

Just something to think about....

Best regards,

Lin

[xahu34]

Hello,

I think that wideangle got to the heart of the matter. One may find good reasons why TheDom's templates should be allowed to be advertised. It may harder to find arguments when Barry Beckham repeats to offer his CDs, although I like his website and his wonderful shows from which I can learn a lot. PTE users who think of public performances may need amplifiers and loudspeakers. So why not offering equipment of that kind. So my question is: Where is the point to stop? At present time, the situation regarding advertising isn't that bad, but it should not become worse significantly.

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[thedom]

Henri, you can send me a PM to tell me your email address and I will send you the template.