Photoshop CS3 vs Photoshop Elements

[Snowbound]

All you guru's...could you please tell me(if you have compared) if the Big boy(CS3) is worth the extra money. I don't really have it to spend and would hope that all that I see in these beautiful shows can be done with Elements. I also don't have a "full" lifetime left to spend exploring the capability of CS3 if I really don't have to. Any thought would be appreciated.

Thanks..

Tim

[Conflow]

TIM,

I have been following your methamorphis from being an 'Old-Timer' into a 'New-Timer'

and your wish to change over from the '2.Projector-System' to the new PTE Program.

(I also was a 2.Projector affiando)

There are many things you have to grapple with, but in the long run they are worth it.

May I make a few worthwhile suggestions:-

(1)

At this point in your progress ~don't spend money~ firstly come to grips with the basic

needs to get you up and going ASAP. This will give you the confidence to explore newer

fields further down the road in the shortest possible time.

(2)

May I suggest using PTE.4.49 as your 1st PTE Program, then once you have mastered

that go on to PTE.5xxx. (The old story, you got to walk before you run).

(3)

You will need 2 Programs to accompany the PTE.SlideShow Program..(a) A Sound-Editor,

and (An Image Editor. These allow you to adjust the quality, size, and timing of your

Photo-Images and Sound-Tracks and provide all the adjustments you would like.

(4)

For your first attempts may I recommend:- 'Audacity Sound Editor' and 'Photo-Filtre' as

your Image Editor. Both of these give extremely good results. (Links are provided below).

(5)

Finally the 'Golden-Rule' ~ don't be too ambitious, limit your 1st Show to 10 Slides each

about 6.secs duration and a piece of Music about 60.secs long. "Believe me you will be

all over the place before you can steer the Bicycle"...

Audacity Sound Editor (Free-Program Link)

http://audacity.sourceforge.net

Photo-Filtre (Free Image Editor Link)

http://photofiltre.en.softonic.com

I don't know what Computer you have, but if a 'Windows Vista-PC' you need to check

whether these Programs will run on Vista ?.

Personally for a beginner I would recommend the use of a 'Windows XP-PC' because its

so much easier to use and no complications with Copyright issues.

Hope this helps to get you started...

Brian.Conflow.

[xahu34]

Hello Old Timer,

I cannot say much on the difference between the 2 programs, as I never used PS Elements, but here is a remark on buying the full version: In Germany you can attend a course on a photographic subject at some adult education centre, and you will obtain some document to buy a student license for PS CS3 at only about twice the price of PS Elements.

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[Johnwnjr]

I have always found that Photoshop Elements does everything you will ever need for AVs and Prints, without you having to learn more. You might even get away with Picaso which is a free program and does all the basic things that Photoshop Elements does, although much finer tuning exists in P.E. To have a look at Picaso just put the name in Google.

John

[xahu34]

Hello John,

I think you refer to "Picasa". It is very difficult to recommend a tool for image prcessing; it depends on the needs of the user and on his motivation to spend time for image processing. I started with Paintshop Pro and ended up with Photoshop. Working on a single image takes me about an hour's time, starting with the raw file, making several adjustments (16 bit per color) either in RGB or in Lab mode, applying actions on contrast masking, and several filters (PS, Nik, ...). So I doubt that a free tool like Picasa could satisfy my demands.

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[Barry Beckham]

You can't really go wrong by advising anyone who asks a question like this to start with Photoshop Elements.

Why?

1. Because it will meet all the needs of an AV enthusiast at any level.

2. For the cost, its a fabulous bit of software

3. It is so similar to Photoshop that even if you move to Photoshop later, your time with Elements is not waisted. Most of the tools are the same.

4. Elements/Photoshop is what everyone is using, why do something different.

5. The question is PS worth the extra money cannot be answered (no offence old timer) It depends on too many variables.

Go get yourself Elements 6 and you will never look back

[Snowbound]

Hey all,

Thanks for your input. Cheapest tool to do the job adequately is what I was looking for. More evals and shopping I guess.... Barry, I particularly like your #3.

Tim

[Snowbound]

Barry,

Oops...when I looked at your message originally it only gave me the first 2 and 3 was blank...now when I went back to it the entire message shows up..with 5 items...strange...thanks.

Tim

[xahu34]

bbdigital,

can you list those tools which are sufficient for preparing the images for "Another Age".

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[mhwarner]

Hi Tim,

In case you are not aware of it, you can download a fully functional trial version of Photoshop Elements (I think it works for 30 days) and try it out. I agree with Barry that it is likely to just about everything you will need to edit your photos and make slideshows. Also, if you ever decide that you do need to move up to the full version of Photoshop, you can get a very decident upgrade price on it because you previously purchased PS Elements. I just recommend Elements to a friend the other day who is not at all a graphics person and she was delighted with the ease with which she was able to modify photos and create graphics for some websites using the package. Try it -- you have nothing to lose. Perhaps you can find a package that is cheaper, and with some maneuvering might do what you want, but unless you have way more time than money (and it sounds like you will need to spend much of that time on the scanning process), you will be doing yourself a favor in purchasing the package. The other thing to keep in mind is that PS Elements (and of course, Photoshop itself) are so universally used that there are many, many tutorials out on the net explaining how to do just about anything you are likely to want. (And don't forget Barry's excellent tutorials as well.)

Whatever you decide, best of luck and we wil be waiting to see your first slideshow!

[Barry Beckham]

xahu34

Well, loads of tools are used really, but the core is.

Layers

Layer Blend modes ( Hard Light, Soft light etc)

Layer Masks

Believe me it isn't that difficult technically

Elements is sufficient to make that sequence and you can create layer masks with Elements by tricking it into thinking its Photoshop.

I have recorded a video on this subject today, I am just stitching all the takes together to see if its small enough to be downloaded

Old Timer

Yes I hit the wrong button or something and the post was sent before I finished it. I edited it straight away, so you must have been on it just as it went up.

[Snowbound]

[Old Timer

Yes I hit the wrong button or something and the post was sent before I finished it. I edited it straight away, so you must have been on it just as it went up.

[JudyKay]

Does anyone take seriously programs like The Gimp (free) or Photo Impact? )price for the new Corel version?? They allow the advantages of Layers and a lot of frills such as endless filters and actions. I actually use PI over PS on occasions. PS is better and faster, but sometimes cumbersome and simply isn't as easy to explore creatively as PI.

jk

[xahu34]

Hello bbdigital,

I am sorry that my question seemed to be misunderstanding (please keep in mind that I am not a native speaker). By the word "tool" I did not think of the elementary mechanisms (like blending modes, layer masking etc.), but of the products which provide them (PS, PS Elements, Paintshop Pro, Fixfoto ...). I am pretty sure that you use PS, and nothing else (as I do, as well, and you can expect some minimum experience also from my side). So, why do you recommend PS Elements?

Kind regards

Xaver

Munich

[Barry Beckham]

xahu34

I recommend Photoshop Elements because it is a great program to get started with. If money is no object then I see no problem with starting with Photoshop either. However, when someone asks what software they should get, we don't know what their skill level is, their learning speed, their committment or their staying power. Photoshop takes a lot of hours to master and some never do despite the many hours spent on it.

I estimate that for something like 80% of people Elements 6 will meet all their needs and probably a lot more. It does not cost a fortune, its a standard bit of software that many other photographers are using and it is very similar to Photoshop in layout and the way it works. Elements 6 also supports Raw for those who wish to have a try at this.

So, if someone starts off with Elements it is likely that it will meet all their needs and they will never reach a level where they will want what it hasn't got. ie What Photoshop has.

If they do reach that point where they do need Photoshop, then they already have a good grounding in how it all works because Elements is so similar. You could think of Elements as a trainer for Photoshop.

With respect to other peoples opinions on this forum I would say this. If someone is interested enough in AV to sign into this forum, I see little point in recommending free programs and those rare ones that few serious amateurs are using. If you have a camera and PTE5, then you can afford Elements. Stay with the mainstream software and when you do have a problem there are lots of willing mind able to help.

There is very little that I produce that I could not produce with Elements. I might have to go about it slightly different and it may take a little longer. If Photoshop did not exist we would all be delighted with Photoshop Elements.

The problem that I meet all the time at demos are people who are way out of their depth trying to use Photoshop and in those situations it is actually a hinderance to them. The trouble is, in their early days when they ask our advice about Photoshop, it is almost impossible to give, because we don't have a crystal ball.

So, Elements in my view is where they should start. In some ways forums can be a little self defeating because when a question is asked, so much conflicting advice comes forward that the person asking can often be none the wiser in the end.

[Lin Evans]

Of course we are all forgetting the extremely powerful and very inexpensive tool availabe right here from Wnsoft called Pixbuilder Studio which offers almost everything we need Photoshop for in terms of PTE (layers, PNG transparency, etc.) at a bargain basement price!

Lin

[xahu34]

Of course we are all forgetting the extremely powerful and very inexpensive tool availabe right here from Wnsoft called Pixbuilder Studio which offers almost everything we need Photoshop for in terms of PTE (layers, PNG transparency, etc.) at a bargain basement price!

Lin

Do you actually use it?

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[Lin Evans]

Hi Xaver,

Yes, absolutely!

Best regards,

Lin

Do you actually use it?

Kind regards

Xaver H.

Munich

[Barry Beckham]

xahu34

So there you are, it's as clear as mud

[Barry Beckham]

xahu34

Another thought has just occurred to me and it's something you can see clearly around the Photographic clubs and societies of the UK. I doubt it's any different elswhere in the world. Why do you think that people who are very serious about their audio visual eventually gravitate towards PTE5 at some stage. They may start with other slide show software, but generally speaking there comes a point when they move to PTE

Why is that? Could it be that people in general will always gravitate to the best and PTE5 is certainly that.

Why do something like 70% of Photographic club members use Photoshop and 30% use Elements. Could it possibly be because they are also the best. I think so, visit clubs in the UK and no other software apart from Photoshop and Elements is ever mentioned.

I use Photoshop and Elements

I rest my case

[xahu34]

Hi Lin, bbdigital

I think everybody should use the tool she/he wants to use. Most of the members in our club who like to spend a long time with a single image use PS. Our chairman, a very good photographer, doesn’t like this work, and he is quite happy with Lightroom. My son, a student of computer science uses Gimp under Linux. All in all, it seems to be difficult to give a general recommendation.

Kind regards

Xaver

Munich

[xahu34]

bbdigital,

A remark on the best AV software: I like PTE, and (regarding performance and the way of modelling shows) it really is the program that satisfies my needs. Presently I’m starting an AV initiative in our small photo club, which traditionally uses m.objects (a good program, quite common in Germany, but as I think with a bad cost/performance ratio). I try to sponsor PTE in our club, let’s see if I’ll be successful. By the way: I would like to present some of your shows as examples.

Kind regards

Xaver

Munich

[Conflow]

Xaver,

I completely agree with your comments concerning A/V Software. We have an expression in Ireland:-

"Different strokes for Different Folks" ~ there is no one particular Package which suits everyone...

Its all to do with cognative abilities, level of experience, artistic objectives (if any) and purpose of use.

After many years of experience as a 'Technical-Instructor' I have adopted a simple philosophy with all

technologies particularily for novice Beginners:- Provide Basic Tools ~Photo Instructions ~Keep it simple.

Get the 'novice' to make a simple Project/Task within the Hour...This lights the fuse of achievement and

enthusiasm is born ~thereafter~ everything else follows and falls into place to suit the purpose of use.

Then and only then, can we start talking about:- refinements,improvements,techniques,presentation and

advanced Software with very subjective merits, which again depending on its purpose of use.

My point being...There are many very talented people on this Forum who out of their enthusiasm tend to

forget the very basic needs of the 'New Novice' who haven't a clue about Photoshop and such likes and

they tend to steer the novice into a quagmire of technology, where in fact its the last thing they need !

There are some excellent simple A/V Utilities out there, well suited to the 'Novice' and these will create

the enthusiasm so necessary to make the PTE.Program the "de-facto" started program for newcomers.

One should keep that in mind...

Brian.Conflow.

[Barry Beckham]

Conflow

Isn't that what I said, its the whole concept of my tutorials.

If, however we list 15 different software packages it hardly helps the person who first asked the question. Stay with the mainstream and Elements fits that perfectly.

[Conflow]

Barry,

Sorry I disagree with you....We should be welcoming 'Beginners' to PTE' not putting them off

by intiminating them with 'Hi-level Programs' just because they are Mainstream to experienced

users such as you and I.

That to me seems like arrogance on our part.......in fact its a presumption suggesting that all

'Beginner-Utilities' are worthless unless they have a 'price-tag' and a Professional-Logo to go

with it. I can't accept your 'Follow the Crowd' philosophy to the detriment of other excellent

Utilities better suited to the Novice...Like I said everything has its place and purpose of usage.

I'm not with you on this one Barry...and I do believe that PTE is 'shareware' thank god.

Brian.Conflow