An excellent slideshow?

[Peter S]

I have been looking with interest at the number of people providing feedback on shows posted in the forum compared with the number of views.

It is a very, very small percentage around the 1% mark. It sometimes appears higher if you look at the number of views compared with the number of posts but often there are multiple posts from the originator and one or two viewers.

Why is the percentage so low?

There appear to be hundreds of people who view the posts in the "slide shows created in PicturesToExe" thread and either don't download them or do download them but never comment.

Would it be right to think that those who don't comment don't really like the shows they see? It is, after all, quite rare to see even constructive critical comments. This is quite nice in some ways but it doesn't really help the learning process.

Just a point for discussion.

Kind regards

Peter

[Ken Cox]

more interesting

is the number of members that appear, get their answer and never reply or come back !

or

the number of readers of help threads that never seem to have an answer !

ken

[Lin Evans]

Hi Peter,

It would be useful to know the status of the viewer's download capability. I'm not certain at all of the percentage of people who have access to broadband communications. I have often been perplexed by the same observations but have attributed it to the assumption that the majority do not have fast connect and download capabilities. Perhaps a poll on the forum could shed more light on the percentages of visitors who are still using dial-up connections?

Best regards,

Lin

[xahu34]

Hello,

as an input to this topic: My show "Memories of Mallorca" has been downloaded approximately 80 times so far. Three user posted, two posts contained substantial comments. This seems to confirm Peter's statement on a low feedback percentage. I also think that this is a pity. Detaining critique may be polite, but it is by no mean helpful.

Best regards

Xaver

Munich

[Ken Cox]

where is

" Mallorca" ?

good colours

ken

[xahu34]

where is " Mallorca" ?

good colours

ken

Hello Ken,

Thank you for your colourful remark. By the way: In Germany, we spell the name as I did it. The island belongs to Spain but it is rather Catalan than Sanish. So, in the language of the people who live there, the name is "Mallorca", see also here.

Best regards

Xaver

Munich

[Ken Cox]

Xaver

easier to read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallorca

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_...ces#-our.2C_-or

USA have shortened a lot of things

ken

[Ronniebootwest]

Hi Peter,

It would be useful to know the status of the viewer's download capability. I'm not certain at all of the percentage of people who have access to broadband communications. I have often been perplexed by the same observations but have attributed it to the assumption that the majority do not have fast connect and download capabilities. Perhaps a poll on the forum could shed more light on the percentages of visitors who are still using dial-up connections?

Best regards,

Lin

I agree that a 'Poll' of members would be a good idea, however, I doubt that many would even bother to participate in that! Such is the apparent apathy of us human beings these days - it is very rare to receive comment or feedback on anything unless it is to complain.

Sad but true.

Ron

[neil]

I think it is partly due to the fact that it is better to make no comment than to say you don't like a persons show.

I really only leave feedback when I have enjoyed what I have seen.

Its sometimes a matter of taste,and not a bad show.

The other reason is people just can't be bothered!

Neil

[stonemason]

I've commented on the lack of feedback in the past, and have personaly come to the conclusion that people are reluctant to risk causing offence by criticizing other peoples work. Personaly again I would rather read why people did not like my work than get no feedback at all which teaches me absolutely nothing. I very rarely make my shows available now for that very reason, if people are not prepared to say why they like or dislike a show then the whole exercise becomes pointless, as the main reason for making shows available is to try and learn from the feedback.

Geoff

[Ken Cox]

myself i want a show that i dont have to change my screen and i do not want a show that takes over my system -- i want full control of the show -- this is not a competition - i want to study your work - picture angle etc

i am concerned with the beat of music

not many shows meet these requests

shows are so easy to put together with controls built in

i download nearly every show that is made available - i test the show to make sure it works - sound works -- i get requests all the time for shows that were uploaded/downloaded years ago and they must work before i send them on

ken

[dpeterso]

I have been looking with interest at the number of people providing feedback on shows posted in the forum compared with the number of views.

Peter

I’ll generally make an effort to respond if a critique is requested. If comments are not requested, I’ll only respond with comments on what I liked. I have to force myself to not offer an unsolicited critique. As to why people don’t respond, there could be many reasons: it takes effort, timidity, feelings of being unqualified, don’t know how to submit a reply, the show is beyond help J, being overly kind, etc, etc.

I find it equally interesting that so few people submit shows. Of the 5000+ members, there has to be more that just a few shows being made. And it’s generally the same people submitting the shows. Let’s face it though; it takes guts to submit a show! You can get your feeling hurt easily. You can even submit a show and get your feeling hurt by not getting any responses. Although it’s instructive, it hurts too. I guess that I’m willing to risk the comments (or no comments) just to learn more about what works and doesn’t work. I’m so tickled by the power of combining images and music that I’m personally willing to invest in the risk as well as taking the time to assist others if requested. I feel a responsibility to participate in the community of slideshow makers if I want it to serve me.

Last thoughts: slideshows are very personal. It reminds me of going to someone’s house and they pull out the projector and have me sit through reels of movies of their family. They are going nuts with excitement and I’m about to die of boredom. Slideshow are no different. It’s really difficult to create a show that has general appeal. In order to do so, it would have to be well planned and executed. All of my shows are just the opposite; they are an after-the-fact assemblage of slides and music. A real hit & miss proposition, I’ll tell you. On the other hand, I’ve looked at some of my earlier shows compared to my more recent shows, and I’m pleased with the improvements. I think my next step up the ladder of improvement is to plan ahead, even using a script if necessary to get the shots that really tells a story about what I’m trying to convey. I’d like for my future shows to be more theme-centric.

Thanks for listening,

Dave

[KyDan]

In my case, my lack of comments is often lack of time.

Or is it my priorities??

We do tend to make time for the things that are most important to us.

To view a show I must follow a link to another website.

Download a zipped file.

Unzip the file.

Check the resulting exe file for virus.

Have time to run the file to watch and enjoy the show.

Decide whether to delete or save the file.

Come back to this forum and make a comment or ask a question.....

This is several steps.

I am new to this even though I made my first show a couple of years ago.

Since I am new, I feel un-........... un-worthy of criticism or critique.

All I can say is "I liked your show" or say nothing out of politeness if I didn't care

for it.

Maybe I didn't care for your show simply because I prefer country scenery and your

show was city life??

There are some cultural differences between our countries and what appeals to

you might not be my cup of tea.

And I am active member/moderator of 3 other forums!

We hike.

We trailer camp.

We garden.

My shows are purely to archive our photos for family viewing.

I didn't realize that all shows were expected to solicit comments!!

Your shows may be for wide audience appeal.

There is much diversity here

BUT

I will keep your message in mind and when I do take time to

download

unzip

and view a show

I will make an effort to leave a comment!

It is a small price to pay for the trouble of putting the show together.

[fh1805]

It's time I chipped in my views to this discussion.

I, too, have been disappointed at the lack of feedback to the various sequences that I have posted. Those who did post comments invariably made points about aspects that I might otherwise have overlooked. When I offer my work for others to view, whether via this forum or to an audience at a local organisation, I like to know what they think about my work. As feedback seems to be rarely given on this forum (measured as a percentage of the number of downloads) I can see very little point in continuing to upload my sequences.

[Barry Beckham]

I don't think this should come as much of a surprise to anyone.

I would suspect that most people visiting this site see the regular members as experts and they will not feel they have the knowledge, skill or experience to be able to make a construtive comment on the work and they are more likely to say nothing.

I suspect also that some senior members see some slide shows where finding something positive to say before offering advice is difficult. What do you do, tell a white lie, be honest and perhaps offend, or say nothing. Well, we know what generally happens.

If we want comments on our images in a camera club we invite an expert judge. (well that's the theory) What is different here?

[KyDan]

...snip...... As feedback seems to be rarely given on this forum (measured as a percentage of the number of downloads) I can see very little point in continuing to upload my sequences.

What happens if you post your slide show and

specifically ASK for critique and comments right along

with the slide show link??

I have -wrongly- assumed that shows that weren't asking for comment

didn't want it??

Peace!

Dan D.

[fh1805]

Dan D.,

With the exception of my "Whitby Abbey" sequence, all others that I have posted have always asked for feedback. Based on the download stats at www.mediafire.com where I upload the sequences, less than five percent of downloaders actually bothers to post any feedback. I suspect Barry has hit the nail on the head when he suggests that "...most people visiting this site see the regular members as experts and they will not feel they have the knowledge, skill or experience to be able to make a constructive comment on the work ..."

[KyDan]

...most people visiting this site see the regular members as experts and they will not feel they have the knowledge, skill or experience to be able to make a constructive comment on the work ..."

That was me!

I came here looking for ideas and answers.

I found them!!!!

Now I will use extra effort to make comments when I view

another persons show.

[LumenLux]

At least this topic is getting good response. The nice easy thing about this topic is there are no wrong answers. We all know why we do or do not submit comments on shows we view. It is helpful to me to understand the feelings of others on this topic as well as to my presentations.

"As feedback seems to be rarely given on this forum (measured as a percentage of the number of downloads) I can see very little point in continuing to upload my sequences."

I would have to differ with that feeling. Although I welcome feedback, and appreciate criticism, I think I am usually providing some good to someone even if I never get a response to a posted show. Granted, I like it a lot better when I do hear from people. I know I am enriched by watching many shows, not all of which receive the deserved comments.

When I post a show, I hope that someone will enjoy it. Secondly, if I receive some feedback, I feel better. As Andy suggests in another topic - It is nice to know a person's photos and efforts are being seen rather than being locked in a peaceful cave on a hard drive! I don't think a viewer has a responsibility to comment. I think that a viewer has an opportunity to comment and thereby add value and enrichment to all concerned. All should feel welcome to be part of this process.

[JudyKay]

I really liked the idea here: http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6713

Let's use it more....ok?

1. I LOVE to watch every show I can find. There have been a few i did not like. All the rest I liked. Life is busy. I download shows, and sometimes don't get to see them for weeks. By then I may not even know who produced it. Still I could do better.

2. Some have shows value as a family/travel/fun documentary, others as art, and still others are just creative. Each has value, but different values. The PSP forum does a good job of just letting people produce without a lot of fear or anxiety about what people will think. We can learn from them and do that here. Let's try to warm the whole thing up and not ever let it get stuffy or exclusive. (This is not an accusation, but a warning i am making to me--out loud).

3. I am not a pro but post and comment happily. I encourage others to do the same.

4. If there was more feedback, I would probably publish more shows. Maybe 1 in 20 ever makes it here for a variety of reasons. I admit every comment I have ever received is very important to me.

jk

[morturn]

Let’s remind ourselves that Beechbrook Cottage and this forum is the finest Audio Visual resources on the internet.

I think that part of the problem here with comments constructive or otherwise is whether or not people feel qualified sufficiently to make such comments.

If you enter a slideshow in a competition, firstly it would have to fit certain criteria. The judges will have a great deal of experience in that field (one would hope), and most importantly will confer with each other to present a unified comment or recommendation.

This problem is compounded further, particularly in a forum like this where most of these shows mean different things to the many different people. All I know is what looks OK to me, which indecently may not look OK for everyone else.

Most people who visit this forum are doing so because of a shared interest and who just like making slideshows. I look at nearly every show posted, some I find quite stunning, some OK and some not so good, but that is a very personal thing to me, however saying that I always appreciate the effort people put into their work, and often email the author direct, although on reflection maybe a comment of the forum would be better.

I will go on the say that it is important to make a contribution to this forum to keep it interesting by both posting shows and posting comments, I think I have improved some of my work with the help of some constructive criticism.

What I would ask people to do when posting comments is to firstly say something positive, then comment as constructive criticism (how would you have done that, not I just I don’t like it) and then finish on a positive note.

[jfa]

Well here is my 2 cents worth.

My method is to download all shows from this forum, most shows on Beechbrook and some shows from many other sites. View them, (sometimes 2 or 3 times), save the exceptional ones in an exceptional folder, save the almost exceptional in an almost exceptional folder and the rest go to the recycle bin.

Looking in my folders I have 9 exceptional, 14 almost exceptional and I think about 50 have gone to the recycle bin this year. That's almost 1 a day.

I find, to my surprise, most that I have commented on are those in the almost exceptional folder. Why is this so? Perhaps it's because I think with just a little adjustment/correction the show could have been exceptional and I am motivated enough to try and give it that nudge.

After some thought other reasons I don't comment are:

On the exceptional shows there is already a number of comments giving high praise and there would be little more I could say.

Someone else has already made the same/similar comments I would make.

I want more time to think about it and then there are more shows to view so comments are forgotten.

As Dan said:

In my case, my lack of comments is often lack of time.

After analysing this process I have resolved to use my limited time to comment more on the shows that go to the recycle bin as these are the ones that I hope will get the most benefit from my humble comments.

Also I have a slow Broadband connection with unlimited download time, but when I only had dial-up I would still download anything less than 100M in size, I don't think this is a big issue given the average show is around 20-25M.

[jfa]

A little more, (I think I'm now up to 4 cents worth).

Looking at the downloads/comments ratio on shows I posted, I have achieved 2.9% over my shows over several years, not counting a number of PMs also received. At my camera club about 55 members attend our judging nights and apart from the judge 2 or 3 members will come up to me over coffee after the judging and offer some comments, mostly favourable. This is around 5%, considering most members would also be friends and we know each others personalties, (ie how we react to criticism), I would see this as a similar result to the forum. Am I correct in deducing that this is then about the "normal" rate of comment one can expect?

I have -wrongly- assumed that shows that weren't asking for comment

didn't want it??

I think your assumption is correct Dan and I would not comment unless comments were asked for.

Some people just want to share and that is fine by me.

As feedback seems to be rarely given on this forum (measured as a percentage of the number of downloads) I can see very little point in continuing to upload my sequences.

Peter I don't think any show posted here that asked for comment has received none. Only one comment makes posting worthwhile, (it is after all little effort to post a show), particularly if that comment is constructive. Just contributing has it's own rewards.

We should also keep in mind how much we learn from reading comments on others work as well as our own.

[xahu34]

I would not comment unless comments were asked for.

Some people just want to share and that is fine by me.

Hello John,

in my eyes asking for comments looks a bit like "fishing for compliments". I myself think that it is quite natural, when publishing some work, that there will be reactions on it. These reactions should be presented in a constructive way, as mentioned by morturn in post #21. Reading your post #22 it is very likely that the show which I posted the other day was put to your recycle bin, as it surely is not near to exceptional. Nevertheless, some comments would have been helpful.

Best regards

Xaver

Munich

[Barry Beckham]

Xaver

No, it's not fishing for compliments.

When we are doing creative work, wheather that is creating images in Photoshop or slide shows there is an invisible mist that comes down and dulls our sences. Its not unique to digital and those of us who worked in the darkroom suffered it too.

This invisible mist prevents us from seeing the most obvious mistakes sometimes and it often needs a fresh eye to do that. Even someone who does not have any skills at all in how to put together an AV has an opinion and it will be valid.

There is a difference between right and wrong and personal preference so when the author does receive a comment on their slide show its up to them to decide if the person making the comment has a point. We don't have to react to the comment if we feel it is wrong, but often someone unconnected with our sequence will spot something useful.

Comment from others, no matter what your skill level is useful as long as it is constructive and said for the right reasons.