Short stroll across Amsterdam

[Barry Beckham]

Dadou

I am not sure what you expect me to say about a slide show like that. Almost any comment at all will upset someone, somewhere on this site.

So, in the interests of diplomacy I decline to make my views public.

You may want to run the wnsoft patch on this slide show though. I hit the escape key on the very last slide as I thought it was designed to stay on screen. (not being able to read the text). It froze Windows Vista.

Igor's patch will fix it.

Can I ask you why you particulalry asked for my comments on that slide show?

[Ken Cox]

for the "kids" on the forum

see

http://www.answers.com/topic/can-t-make-a-...-of-a-sow-s-ear

in my "taking days" one would take a pict - and you all know the types -- they would not hold still be frowning etc and when one would present it to them " I dont like it"

my reply

and invaribly rip it up -- they had expected me to give it to them free

ken

[d67]

Hello Peter

May I suggest that anyone wishing to make unpleasant comments to another forum member does it through personal messages and NOT in public on the message board. Or better still not at all.

Xaver's shady's jokes about Krematorium can not be just occulted by personnal messages !!!!!!!!

At this occassion I am really badly surprised nobody steped in.

The politically correct has it's limits.

Past has proven that silence is from far not a solution.

"Or better still not at all"

I am absolutely not sure to understand what you mean.

Do you suggest it is better not to respond ?

Bye the way I don't consider criticism on any aspect of a show posted for comment as "unpleasant" as I am sure those making the observations intend them to be constructive.

OK then... for the fifth time I will re explain my choices !!!!!

"I am clearly aware of the darkness of the shadows of the first part of the sequence and, if you take time, you will see that

- I explained two times in this thread why I did not correct this situation more (unreal aspect or flat contrasts) and

- I publicised this show in pinpointing my choices ("The first day was brightly sunny ... with violent light contrasts and the next day was misty and grey ... and very dark.")."

When I ask for comments I expect positive and negative one. I have weakness to find that the later are perhaps more interessant.

But why give critics to a choice I clearely pinpointed and then explicitided twice .... very sterile !

I can understand that the majority don't find these contrasty photos pleasant .... I have then failed to transmit my impressions (difficullt to be a genius every time !)

... but this will not make me change the photo treatment because the slideshow will then have no other signification then a photo catalog with music.

Be sure I am absolutely not aggrieved by the negative reactions. I just ask me how I could have made it to share my particular impression during this sunny trip.

Regards

Patrick

[dadou]

Barry

You said :Bad images should not constitute ANY part of a show, if you know they are bad, dump them and find something more suitable.

Immediatly, I thought to this Eric's slideshow and I asked him the autorisation to present it here : it is tipical of the bad conditions , and I was thinking that it is a good exemple to show that it is possible to do an interessant slideshow with poor pictures .

I thought to it too for the word "krematorium" used by Xaver wich is a very bad sound for many of us here ...

Personaly, I think that it is not necesary to use beautifull elements to do a good slide show ...

As you spoke about the practice of slide show and as I know your work, considering you are a very good photograph and sell methods , I asked you your comments ... and if you think that slide show is a good way to share something else than beautifull landscapes or flowers ...Do you agree the principe ?

Technicaly, Eric is now a very good user of PTE, but I didn't give him enough time to put the Vista patch ( happy to see that XP will stay more time that it was said !). He does very nice travels slide show and also other ones about his activities in Africa ...

Happy to see that PTE is a good and universal tool !

Best regards

[d67]

in my "taking days" one would take a pict - and you all know the types -- they would not hold still be frowning etc and when one would present it to them " I dont like it"

my reply

and invaribly rip it up -- they had expected me to give it to them free

It is sometimes a bit difficult to translate as you make use of short cuts ... so, to be sure I correctly understand your words I transcript what you said me sometime and I think means the same :

Lots of times one take pictures a certain way for a reason.... the general public do not know your reason.

In other cases you take it as you see it because tomorrow the weather might be worse or you have gone home

If you see a shot you like, take it .... because the road ahead may take you farther away from the scene you just saw !

As you see, I preciously kept these words full of common sense

[dadou]

Full of common sense, Ken !

Thank you Patrick ...too hard for my english !!!

[Barry Beckham]

Dadou

I think I understand where you were coming from now. I agree that you can create a slide show with less than perfect images and create something very worthwhile. Creating a sequence can capture a mood or emotion and sometimes that mood/emotion is strong enough to overcome some less than perfect images.

However, that sort of show is not the norm and generally speaking these types of slides shows are rare. 99 times out of 100, the image quality is vital to the slide shows success, especially when presenting those slide shows to other keen and skilled photographers on forums like this. As far as I am aware this discussion is not about an isolated slide show like the one you suggested I comment on.

If you ever judge a photographic competition at a camera club, you cannot judge the pictures against some perfection you may have seen in an international salon. You have to judge what is presented to you, based on the general standard of entries for that particular competition and/or club.

Well, isn't that exactly what we do here? We look at each others sequences and it doesn't take too long before we get a pretty good idea on the typical quality and presentation we will see. Our comments, if they are honest are then based on that standard.

I don't agree with those here who feel lightening shadows gives an unatural look. As long as it is not overdone and it is measured, it does improve the image. Well, it does through my eyes and making those adjustments takes nothing away from the images/show and in fact adds interest. Why, because we are all keen photographers whose interest is to see good images. If you put forward images that someone feels are not that good, what does that person say. The only thing you can say is constructive ideas on how to make the adjustments, but it is only a personal opinion. Those opinions can be accepted or rejected, no offence should be taken.

Having said that there is always a danger that the written words we see on forums can be misinterpreted. Sometimes deliberately, but more often than not completely unintentionally. When you add the differences of language I am surprised it doesn't happen more often.

There needs to be a fair degree of tolerance allowed to anyone on forums as we can all rattle off an email one minute and later when we read it again see that it could be interpreted in a far different way than we intended.

Live and let live and don't look for offense when none was intended.

[xahu34]

... for the word "krematorium" used by Xaver wich is a very bad sound for many of us here ...

Dadou,

Let me remind you that I intended nothing else but presenting two versions of an image that had been taken under extreme sunlight conditions, and to show the effect of particular technique.

What do you mean by "very bad sound for many of us here". Does "here" refer to "some people in France"? It will happen again and again, that in different countries a particular word will be interpreted differently. Let me remind you that this is an English forum, and I am neither English nor French.

Anybody who may try to position my person into a particular political corner is absolutely on the wrong track, or (as other members in this forum say) barks up the wrong tree.

Referring to offenses against my person (by a particular forum member, not you), let me follow Konrad Adenauer and say: "Nicht einmal ignorieren."

Best regards

Xaher H.

Munich

[Igor]

Let's stop discussions in such direction, please.

[xahu34]

Let's stop discussions in such direction, please.

This is the really best thing to do!

Best regards

Xaver

Munich

[dadou]

Barry

I am happy to see that you admit the possibility of other ways than international competitions, and that slideshow is not a photographic salon .

I wholly agree with your opinion about lightening shadows for a picture, but can understand the willingness to not respect a rule by an author well known as Patrick ... and I think that here starts the author style, or he stays a conformist ... What worser than uniformity ?

Happy to have this exchange with you in spite of my langage problems !

[Barry Beckham]

The lanquage does make it a bit tricky to understand sometimes, but you can speak and write English, I can't speak or write French.

I am afraid it is the Englisg disease, we expect the whole world to conform to us.

So keep up the good work

[susiesdad]

Patrick

I for one thought that the high contrast, dark shadows depicted Amsterdam as I remeber it. The low bright winter/spring sunshine and the relatively tall buildings on narrow streets has this effect. That is part of the charm of Amsterdam. Similarly the foggy day shots brought a chill and calmness to the scenes. Your show reminded me very much of how it was on my April visit and brought back fond memories of the city. I must visit it again.

Regards

Alan

[d67]

I for one thought that the high contrast, dark shadows depicted Amsterdam as I remeber it. The low bright winter/spring sunshine and the relatively tall buildings on narrow streets has this effect. That is part of the charm of Amsterdam.

A very big thank you Alan !!!

It is exactly what I found and what makes the difference with other towns.

Patrick

[Ken Cox]

you took it as you seen it without any extra "tuning" as you explained at the start

ken

[mhwarner]

Patrick,

I thoroughly enjoyed the show. The photography was lovely. As for the dark shadows issue, I did not really notice it as a problem. I only spent a few days in Amsterdam once many years ago so I can't remember the quality of light in that city, but I have spent a good deal of time photographing in New York City and found much the same issue with the light and shadows there. While I agree that it would be possible to bring out more detail in the shadows, I'm not sure that it wouldn't take away from the overall impression of the city. The human eye, of course, compensates for the difference and sees a broader dynamic range than the camera, but most of the detail was visible in the shadows of your photos and it did not detract anything as far as I am concerned.

My only negative comment would be that I did not think the quality of the simulated line-drawing/watercolor painting of the windmill at the end was up to the quality of the rest of the show. If you are using Photoshop, you might want to experiment with this free action http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm#Watercolor_Tint (or one of the other sketch actions available here) to see what alternatives you might be able to create.

Thank you for sharing and this show stays in my keeper list to watch again.

[d67]

My only negative comment would be that I did not think the quality of the simulated line-drawing/watercolor painting of the windmill at the end was up to the quality of the rest of the show. If you are using Photoshop, you might want to experiment with this free action http://www.atncentral.com/download.htm#Watercolor_Tint (or one of the other sketch actions available here) to see what alternatives you might be able to create.

Thank you for your comments.

I will give a try to the script. It seems actually an interesting one (sort of waffled paper result).