Single Image Competitions

[Big Kev]

Is it possible for PTE to be improved for use for single image competitions?

I have used it for competitions successfully before by putting all the images into a folder....randomised them by dragging them in to the slide list at the bottom, arranging the project so that the right click makes the image go to the next and the left to the previous image and then projecting using 'preview'.

The problem arises when the judge requires certain images holding back for viewing later - I have made a note of the file numbers of those, then at the end of the round removed all the slides from the list and then in the lightbox...double clicked on the images the judge wanted to see again and they have gone back into the slide list.

This is ok when there are as small number of images and a small number of clubs. When there are more - say 1500.....finding all the images to put back in can take some time.

The only thought I have had is to use two computers - one to drive the projector in preview mode....the other to have the the slide list show on......as each image comes up...all the lower marked images are deleted from the pictures on the slide list running order.....and when a high scoring image come along...the image is kept on the running order so that at the end of the run through only the highest scored ones remain for reviewing. If the marks are important then they can be typed into the 'comment window'

Then the whole lot of images could be saved as a back up zip...and then transferred to the projection machine to be shown.

This is all a bit messy - any other ideas???

Maybe a button can be provided in the preview mode.that when pressed will attach a marker to that image?

Then all the ones with the marker can be shown and the others hidden...is that possibe???

[davegee]

Take a look here KEV,

http://www.photocompviewer.co.uk/

My preference would be to use PTE but logistically it can be quite problematic.

Our club use a PTE EXE file to give to a judge 2 weeks in advance of a comp and he then has fewer problems because of the viewing time given to him. They also give him the original images but I don't like that idea at all.

Make sure that whatever you use is capable of showing at what I call "ACTUAL PIXELS" and does not default to FIT SCREEN etc. Authors work deserves to be shown at the submitted resolution and NOT interpolated up or down by a machine.

DaveG

[Conflow]

KEV,

To me this has all the makings of a 'Logistical Nightmare' which can be sorted with the correct choice

of additional Software so organised as to make a 'Numeric Hierarchy' of the shortlisted Photo Entrants.

In fact you answered your own queston, you wrote:-

"When a high scoring image comes along...the image is kept on the running order so that at the end of the

run through, only the highest scored ones remain for reviewing. If the marks are important then they can

be typed into the 'comment window"...

Everything else about size,type,resolution is completely irrelevant at this point in time ~ you need Software

to do the above job ~ so lets focus on that, as it will have future relevance to many other Forum Members.

I have one Question:-

How do you identify each Entrant by Name and corresponding Entry Number ? and corresponding

Category Number ?....(Ignore the number of Photos per Entrant)...this is the key to the whole Logistic.

I have a few ideas about this, but I need a little time to look at the logistics, so I will come back on this.

Brian.Conflow.

P.S. Many Sports have the same problem, such as the Olympics ~ your problem is not new.

[stonemason]

Kev take a look at Iview media pro http://www.iview-multimedia.com/. My camera club uses it for digital competitions when the judge says he / she wants to see an image again it can be flagged by a single keypress. There is no visible intervention on the screen but if say the "1" key is pressed that image will be flagged red. To recall all the "see again" images then a filter is set to show only those flagged as red. Sounds complicated in the telling but is very simple and works very well. On the see again runthrough different number keys can be pressed to flag an image a different coulour say green for commended yellow for highly commended and blue for the winner. Thes colours are assigned to different number keys ie 2 = green etc. The only thing to remember is that the software uses the upper number keys on the keyboard and not the number pad.

Hope this helps

Geoff

[ksf]

Kev, I believe Adobe Lightroom will let you do all the things you want.

[JRR]

Our Club has used ThumbsPlus for this type of competition/judging

ThumbsPlus

[Conflow]

Geoff, Keith and Jim, Dave,

I don't wish to be a pain in the 'butt' and although your suggestions are really good may I suggest

that you re-read Big Kevs post again...

The jist of it, is as Quoted,viz:-

"As each Image comes up...all the lower marked Images are deleted from the Pictures on the

'Slide List' running order...and when a high scoring Image come along...that Image is kept in

the running order ~so at the end of the run~ only the highest scored Images remain for reviewing".

(Edited for clarity)

In effect Kev needs three things: A 'Numeric Score Counter' and a 'Numeric Score Comparitor'

and an 'Comparitor Tagger' all in one Program. This is done in other Industries such as 'Olympics' and

on a smaller scale in Local Elections and in most Supermarkets and in many Sports activities.

In my opinion, Programs such as Spreadsheets and Excel Utilities would be a step in the right direction.

Brian.Conflow

[Conflow]

Hi All,

Firstly I note that Big Kev has not come back to us ~however~ for the benefit of other Forum Members who are interested

in this popular topic:- "Photo-Competition Database-Calculator/Computer" I done some research on this as promised, and

here below is a List of Programs which will do the job which I specified in my #7 Post above:-

* Microsoft Access

* Microsoft Excel

* File Maker Pro (Bento)

* Mathematica (Pro)

* Microsoft SQL Server Express

"Attached" is a Draft-1 (outline) as to how this Software Database-Computer could be created...at No Cost !

Below is a 'Link' to Bento Corp. who have a range of Video-Presentations which will expand your knowledge

of these new-fangled Database Systems.

Link:-

http://www.bentotrial.com/trial/demo/?ovmk...1DC3E5F5FA089A7

Brian.Conflow

P.S You will need to view the 'attachment' in Full Screen.

[davegee]

Hi Brian,

Maybe I am not understanding what is being proposed.

Does your database "control" the show for judging i.e. does it remove images not required for second/third showings for judges?

DaveG

[BobM]

Hi All,

I've been a lurker on this forum for some time, it has been very informative as well. Anyway getting back to the thread of competition software, our club uses ImageComp Pro

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/imagecomppro/index.html

It has worked well for us and costs very little, and after a bit of training on behalf of the button pusher gives a very slick presentation for all aspects required.

I'm sure this topic was raised some time ago and several other packages mentioned as well.

Bob

[Conflow]

Dave

Dave this was NOT my Proposal the query came from 'Big Kev' and I did ask Members to re-read

his requirements ~specifying his Outline Brief~ before Posting their replies. Again his brief is as follows:-

Big-Kev viz:-

..."As each Image comes up...all the lower marked Images are deleted from the Pictures on

the 'Slide List' running order...and when a high scoring Image come along...that Image is kept

in the running order ~so at the end of the run~ only the highest scored Images remain for reviewing".

(Edited for clarity)... and there is more.

Dave - to answer your question, Yes my Draft-Proposal clearly states the objective to 'auto-select' Images

in a hierarchal order and drop those not reaching a benchmark. Those reaching the benchmark are given

a 'Tag' for further re-review on demand.

Furthermore my Draft proposes that the PC calculates that 'benchmark' in a progressive manner as the results

come in. It also proposes an 'unique' method of Image identity and this is automatically tracked by the PC in

the event of a called 're-count'. Furthermore the Judges do not know the identity of the Entrants (important).

Finally, the Competition can be run by an Adjudicator who can 'update' the Scores on the Projector Screen

in full view of all Entrants in real time. (Done by Laser-Pointer Controller). The System can be selected from

within the Main Show Presentation.

My response was to come up with a 'Design Specification' to do exactly that, at little or No Cost..using

available Microsoft Utilities or an external Database and even look at other Programs if they fit the spec.

(No point in re-inventing the wheel if it has been done elsewhere to that specification)

Bob

Thats a very nice Program your Club is using, I have re-inserted your Club Link so Members have

a further oppurtunity to examine this Program in detail:-

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/imagecomppro/index.html

General

Many other Programs have been 'mooted' here on the Forum ~ but most have failed to follow up on their claims.

Brian.Conflow.

[BobM]

Bob

Thats a very nice Program your Club has developed, I have re-inserted your Club Link so Members have

a further oppurtunity to examine it in detail below:-

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/imagecomppro/index.html

Brian.Conflow.

Just a clarification, ImageComp Pro wasn't developed by our club, it's author is Roy Moore. We have been using it for 2 years on an XP Laptop.

Bob

[Conflow]

Bob,

I have corrected my error which you stated above:-

Brian.

[davegee]

Hi Brian,

I wasn't knocking it in any way - just clarifying.

DaveG

[Conflow]

Dave,

Good god Dave, no suggestion of that at all ~ its just that I wanted Members to really read what 'Big Kev'

had proposed in his draft-outline because its a complex proposal and it really merits some deep consideration

and is it worth following up ?

There is a lot of interest in that type of Utility (most don't work properly) and it appeared to me as an ideal

oppurtunity for Members to become involved in something worthwhile which would benefit all of us, not only

in Photo-Competitions but also as a Library Utility (Store-Keeper) for large Photo collections.

Problem with these Projects is that they get bogged down with "Who said what" or simple 'Mis-enterpretations'

and thats what I'm trying to avoid at all costs so we can collectively reach some conclusions a.s.a.p.

Brian.

[stonemason]

Brian I couldn't agree with you more. There is a market for this type of software, as camera clubs grapple with the digital changes. My own club (www.rdps.co.uk) run a national competition attracting over 2600 images this year. We are fortunate in that we have an "access guru" as a member and the database he has developed drives the whole competition including the projection of the images via a third party viewer and a two monitor setup on the pc. The pc monitor shows the access window, and the images are projected via the second monitor which is the projector. This works extremely well, and also handles all the paper work and finance for the competition. We are fortunate in having this guy as a member, and that he has been prepared to spend many hours developing and refining the system. Hopefully someone soon will take up the challenge of marketing something that will become standard across the camera club world.

Regards

Geoff

[Big Kev]

Hi All - Sorry for the delay in replying....I didn't think everyone would be on the ball so quickly!!!

Firstly, many thanks for all your suggestions which I will now read carefully and get some ideas from.

Yes I know there are other forms of software around....but they have tended to fall into one of two categories - either they are very good at projecting the image or are of the album type - good at keeping track of the images.

We have recently experimented using Adobe Bridge for a competition as it allowed the images to be 'starred' and then filtered.....all well and good but the 'slide show' part of the program was not quite so good...and surely that is the most important part.

PTE is very good at projection!

I am heavily involved with the AV side and provided the projector is set up correctly, the sequences shown from a great many authors, all seem to project very well. It is extremely unusual for a judge to comment adversly on a sequence because the images didn't look right.

My reason for the posting was to in effect to ask Igor if it was possible for a marker facility to be added to the program and then for those marked to be called back up as described.

My thought was that with so many clubs around the world all holding single image competitions - it was maybe a way of increasing his sales and the registrations of pte and making the job of the poor competition secretary easier.?????

[Big Kev]

Hi Brian

The file number for the image has the unique code - club code/section/entrynumber

The entry is made on an excel spreadsheet and then accessed by a database.

KEV,

To me this has all the makings of a 'Logistical Nightmare' which can be sorted with the correct choice

of additional Software so organised as to make a 'Numeric Hierarchy' of the shortlisted Photo Entrants.

In fact you answered your own queston, you wrote:-

"When a high scoring image comes along...the image is kept on the running order so that at the end of the

run through, only the highest scored ones remain for reviewing. If the marks are important then they can

be typed into the 'comment window"...

Everything else about size,type,resolution is completely irrelevant at this point in time ~ you need Software

to do the above job ~ so lets focus on that, as it will have future relevance to many other Forum Members.

I have one Question:-

How do you identify each Entrant by Name and corresponding Entry Number ? and corresponding

Category Number ?....(Ignore the number of Photos per Entrant)...this is the key to the whole Logistic.

I have a few ideas about this, but I need a little time to look at the logistics, so I will come back on this.

Brian.Conflow.

P.S. Many Sports have the same problem, such as the Olympics ~ your problem is not new.

[Conflow]

Igor, Kev, Geoff and All,

Igor

I hope this 'thread' comes to your attention because what Kev suggests makes real 'Commercial Sense' for the PTE Company.

Kev wrote:-

"My reason for the posting was to in effect to ask Igor if it was possible for a marker facility to be added to the program and then

for those marked to be called back up as described and shown in Brians copy & paste.

My thought was that with so many clubs around the world all holding single image competitions - it was maybe a way of increasing

PTE Sales and the registrations of Pte and making the job of the poor competition secretary easier."....

Self

I agree with Kev, a simple 'Image Marker' in the Program would be of immense help in developing a Photo Competition Program.

Geoff

Many thanks for your encouragement, and I note your 'Guru' uses Microsoft Access which I had considered to use as a 1st step

towards a 'Skeleton Framework' around which a program could be Developed.

Kev

Thanks for getting back to us, your 'Outline Brief' was most useful and as was shown in my 'Access Draft-Proposal' it certainly

is possible to develop a simple but powerful 'Competition Program' with utilities currently available to us.

Geoff's reply further confirms what I thought, and as I said, the whole secret of this is in the 'Image Registration Name Code' that must

drive the entire Program. And as I also said, its entirely possible to access the Control Program from within the PTE Presentation.

Shall wait for further inputs from Members.

Brian.Conflow.

[cjdnzl]

I am watching this thread with considerable interest. Early next year our club will be host to the National Exhibition held in conjunction with the National Convention of the Photographic Society of New Zealand - PSNZ for short.

PSNZ tell me to expect about 2,000 images and photographs for this competition, and we have to find the software to not only present the images for the judges with on-the-fly culling of the rejects, but also to keep track of the owners and the entry fees.

This is a great forum

Colin.

[Big Kev]

Kev, I believe Adobe Lightroom will let you do all the things you want.

Thanks Keith - that was our second choice for running the competitions......

[Conflow]

Colin,

Thanks for that News about PSNZ and this might be an oppurtunity to 'garner' some Research Data ?

May I ask the following questions:-

A)

How many Categories of Photographs will be exibited ?

How many Photographs per Owner are envisaged ?

C)

Can an Owner's enter their Photographs in multiple Categories ?

D)

How many 'Owner Age Categories' are there ? (Eg:- Children, Youths, Seniors) ignore gender.

E)

Will the Presentation Formats be in Landscape or Portrait or a mixture of both and Odd Sizes ?

F)

What 'Viewing Format' will be adopted:- 4:3 or 16:10 or a mixture of both ?

I would really appreciate your assistance in trying to tie up these parameters, and indeed if anyone else is

reading this, their input would also be appreciated.

No need to tie up this Forum Thread, just copy the above and send your answers via the Forum Messenger

EMail which can be accessed by clicking on My Profile.

Brian.Conflow.

[davegee]

Brian,

Regarding "f":

Herein lies the problem.

Consider that the Projector used determines the MAXIMUM resolution of the author's entry.

Aspect ratio can be ANYTHING within the resolution of the projector.

For example, using a 1920x1080 projector submissions could be ANY size and aspect ratio UP TO that resolution. 16:9, 5:4, 4:3 or CUSTOM.

Another thing to consider, if the organisers make a rule saying, for instance, that entries must be no more than 1920 wide and no more than 1080 high (for my example) are they then going to disqualify an entry which is bigger on one or both sides? Organisers are OBLIGED to present images at (wait for it!) ACTUAL PIXELS or submitted resolution.

If "fit to slide" is used bigger entries will fit to screen BUT also it will fit smaller entries to screen (in my book a definite NO-NO).

I could go on...........................

DaveG

[Conflow]

Dave,

I have taken a copy of your Message and its gone into the Research Folder. I do appreciate

what you say, and indeed, that must open a 'can of worms' at various Photo Competitions.

The reason for Item:F in the questionairre was to 'Pre-Filter' the Images into various

popular formats (popular being the operative word) whereby large Images would not

optically detract from the merits of a (similar) smaller Image.....you know what I mean.

Then by the same token should 'Image Size Filtering' be part of the Database ?

At this stage of the research I simply don't know.

Brian.

[davegee]

It is more likely that the image name will determine running order. Size is irrelevant to that side of things.

DaveG