A Bit of a Mesh

[Fants]

The good news,

What superb software. My wife and I have travelled throughout the world in recent years and the resulting slideshows compiled using Pte have wowed audiences across our county and beyond (mainly used as charity fundraisers.) I even have show bookings for 2009 already.

The more disturbing news,

A trip to the Everest and Annapurna regions of Nepal yielded, as you can imagine, some great RAW sourced images which individually print superbly and project impressively via a digital projector. However when JPEG versions of the images containing clear skies and mountain scenery are put into Pte they display a gauze/mesh pattern.

Unfortunately, all the shots were originally made solely in RAW without the camera being set to save simultaneous JPEG files so I have no fallback to an original JPEG.

Has anyone else encountered a similar problem ( you Colorado folks must encounter lots of mountains and blue skies?) Can you suggest a workround?

The workflow was: Nikon D200 with Nikkor 18-200 VR lens set to RAW, 100 - 200 ISO > Nikon Capture NX RAW processing software > TIFF file into

Photoshop Elements 3 > Saved as highest quality JPEG > Pte Version 5.1 (also tried with versions 4.48 and 5.5 with same result.)

Any advice would be most welcome, Stuart

[Lin Evans]

Hi Stuart,

That's a strange one! Could you possibly post one or two of the images in full resolution which you are having difficulty with?

Have you tried the same show on a different computer? This really sounds like a hardware issue of some sort rather than a PTE issue. Perhaps if you could create a very simple PTE show just using about two images where you see this problem and post both the zipped PTE file and a zipped executable file we can quickly get to the bottom of the cause.

A "mesh" pattern which appears on images in a PTE show in both 4.x and 5.x but which "doesn't" appear in other software on the same system would be very strange indeed because 4.x and 5.x use totally different "engines". 5.x uses hardware rendering through the video card while 4.x doesn't render but just displays via the video card. The video card is the common denominator but the first thing I would do would be to see if this is happening on a different system.

Also try some of your older images from another trip and see if they too show this problem. Could you also try playing a slideshow from perhaps Beechbrook which has blue skies, etc., to see if the problem also appears there?

Best regards,

Lin

[Fants]

Hi Stuart,

That's a strange one! Could you possibly post one or two of the images in full resolution which you are having difficulty with?

Have you tried the same show on a different computer? This really sounds like a hardware issue of some sort rather than a PTE issue. Perhaps if you could create a very simple PTE show just using about two images where you see this problem and post both the zipped PTE file and a zipped executable file we can quickly get to the bottom of the cause.

A "mesh" pattern which appears on images in a PTE show in both 4.x and 5.x but which "doesn't" appear in other software on the same system would be very strange indeed because 4.x and 5.x use totally different "engines". 5.x uses hardware rendering through the video card while 4.x doesn't render but just displays via the video card. The video card is the common denominator but the first thing I would do would be to see if this is happening on a different system.

Also try some of your older images from another trip and see if they too show this problem. Could you also try playing a slideshow from perhaps Beechbrook which has blue skies, etc., to see if the problem also appears there?

Best regards,

Lin

[Fants]

Hello Lin,

Thankyou for your speedy reply. First of all let me say how inspirational the downloaded slideshows were. I,m still trying to get my head around the coyote emerging from the frame effect. I've done a lot of wildlife photography in Africa so I can see some mind - blowing possibilities for future shows. I will be buying the package of tutorials in due course.

Trying on another system sounds an admirable idea and as luck would have it, I've just bought a new Vista - based machine which I shall be getting up and running in the next few days ( once the inevitable XP - Vista xfer compatibility issues have been sorted.)

Please keep my query on file and I'll get back to you in due course. If plan A doesn't work I'll certainly send you some example files.

Thanks again, Stuart

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hello Lin,

Thankyou for your speedy reply. First of all let me say how inspirational the downloaded slideshows were. I,m still trying to get my head around the coyote emerging from the frame effect. I've done a lot of wildlife photography in Africa so I can see some mind - blowing possibilities for future shows. I will be buying the package of tutorials in due course.

Trying on another system sounds an admirable idea and as luck would have it, I've just bought a new Vista - based machine which I shall be getting up and running in the next few days ( once the inevitable XP - Vista xfer compatibility issues have been sorted.)

Please keep my query on file and I'll get back to you in due course. If plan A doesn't work I'll certainly send you some example files.

Thanks again, Stuart

Hi Stuart

I have the same camera and lens set up as you, I usually shoot in raw/jpeg combo, however I do edit from raw then save as a jpeg for my pte stuff. I have never experienced the "mesh" effect, one thing that came to mind was your "filter", did you use the same add on filter for all the shots with the mesh effect???

Yachtsman1

[Fants]

Follow-up Report.

Thanks to all who replied and particularly to Yachtsman who, I think, suggested over sharpening as a possible contributor.

Insufficient RAM is not a problem as my new machine has 3 Gb so I looked to the images themselves. To avoid going back to the original RAW files and rebuilding those, I modified the JPEG files. Yes, I realise that is a "lossy" approach but creating exhibition A3+ prints isn't the purpose of this particular excercise.

Photoshop Elements 6 contains some new and very effective noise-reducing tools so I did this:-

Open image > Filter > Noise > Median (set to 1 pixel) > Despeckle > Filter > Noise > Reduce Noise (adjust Strength/ Preserve Detail/ Reduce Colour Noise sliders for best effect.)

Just for good measure, check the "Remove JPEG Artifacts" box as well.

Problem pretty well eliminated or at least reduced to an imperceptible level when the pictures are put into PTE.

On an entirely different tack; Is it only my impression that transitions are not as smooth in 5.5 ? Are my images too big at 2Gb+ in some cases or do I need to adjust the smoothing line value in the Effects box?

Stuart

[bmccammon]

I guess I'm just really confused here. I've used a D200 for years and shoot RAW almost exclusively. I can't imagine a RAW conversion to JPG from a properly exposed ISO 100 or 200 file created in the D200 being so full of noise that it creates an issue in PTE... any version. Creating TIFF files in Capture NX seems like overkill if the end product is a file for use in PTE. You talk about Photoshop Elements 6 so I have to assume you have it installed. While I don't use Elements (I'm a CS3 guy) I have to believe that converting a NEF file in Elements to a JPG file of level 8-10 would not degrade the image noticeably. If you are seeing "mesh" or some other abberation in PTE when viewing your shows on your monitor then I'd have to conclude that your video card or file size are the sources. For the life of me, I don't see why the discussion is falling to noise reduction or "despeckeling". I really do believe that if you batch convert a set of properly exposed NEF files to high quality JPG at 1024x768 and level 8-10 that you will see a high quality show in PTE. If you don't I'd strongly suspect some hardware issues rather than how you process the files or what PTE is doing to them. Just my $0.02 worth based on several years of shooting NEF with the same camera and using PTE to provide high quality slideshows to clients and family.

[JEB]

Hi Stuart,

I think you'll find your images are FAR TOO BIG. 200kbit would be nearer the mark, unless you are panning or zooming.

Regards

John

P.S. I envy your trip to Nepal. I was in the Langtang Valley several years ago and as it happens at that time I was just getting into photography and starting to play with digital. I only had a 35mm film camera and at that time Kodak were offering a new service where they supplied digital files on a CD from film. They managed to screw up magnificently but that's another story. The message is that each file was about 5-700 kbit. as I remember, no use for prints but ideal for producing an AV. In my ignorance I was using PowerPoint at that time but have since redone my show in PTE. Sorry about that - just ranting on over old memories!!

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Follow-up Report.

Thanks to all who replied and particularly to Yachtsman who, I think, suggested over sharpening as a possible contributor.

Insufficient RAM is not a problem as my new machine has 3 Gb so I looked to the images themselves. To avoid going back to the original RAW files and rebuilding those, I modified the JPEG files. Yes, I realise that is a "lossy" approach but creating exhibition A3+ prints isn't the purpose of this particular excercise.

Photoshop Elements 6 contains some new and very effective noise-reducing tools so I did this:-

Open image > Filter > Noise > Median (set to 1 pixel) > Despeckle > Filter > Noise > Reduce Noise (adjust Strength/ Preserve Detail/ Reduce Colour Noise sliders for best effect.)

Just for good measure, check the "Remove JPEG Artifacts" box as well.

Problem pretty well eliminated or at least reduced to an imperceptible level when the pictures are put into PTE.

On an entirely different tack; Is it only my impression that transitions are not as smooth in 5.5 ? Are my images too big at 2Gb+ in some cases or do I need to adjust the smoothing line value in the Effects box?

Stuart

If you are using slides of 2gb each I'm surprised the computer hasn't blown a fuse, I usually use 300kb per slide as a maximum when using animation.

Yachtsman1

[Lin Evans]

Hi Guys,

I suspect that's a typo and that his files are 2 megabytes instead of 2 gigabytes. I don't think it's possible to create 2 gigabyte files with any present digital camera unless you are stitching a couple hundred full sized images and in such case the limit for PTE and Windows 32 bit for a "total" single file size is 2 gigabytes. I think we can safely assume that it's 2Mb - LOL.

Best regards,

Lin

If you are using slides of 2gb each I'm surprised the computer hasn't blown a fuse, I usually use 300kb per slide as a maximum when using animation.

Yachtsman1

[fh1805]

Stuart,

Just to clarify the image file size issue...

If you simply want to use these images in a PTE sequence that will be projected via your digital projector then the images need be no larger than the native resolution of your projector. So, if your projector's native resolution is 1024x768, there is no point in making your images any larger as the excess pixels will have to be taken out. The only exception is if you are using PTE v5's Pan and Zoom features. In this case you need to resize the images such that, no matter what level of zoom or pan you have done, the pixels being displayed through the projector are all "original pixels".

For example, let's assume your projector is 1024x768 and you want to zoom in to 200%: you will need an image of at least 2048x1536 to ensure that, at the end of the deep zoom in, every pixel on display is an "original" and not an interpolated one.

You can quickly resize a batch of images in Photoshop Elements using File...Process Multiple Files... command.

[Fants]

The good news,

What superb software. My wife and I have travelled throughout the world in recent years and the resulting slideshows compiled using Pte have wowed audiences across our county and beyond (mainly used as charity fundraisers.) I even have show bookings for 2009 already.

The more disturbing news,

A trip to the Everest and Annapurna regions of Nepal yielded, as you can imagine, some great RAW sourced images which individually print superbly and project impressively via a digital projector. However when JPEG versions of the images containing clear skies and mountain scenery are put into Pte they display a gauze/mesh pattern.

Unfortunately, all the shots were originally made solely in RAW without the camera being set to save simultaneous JPEG files so I have no fallback to an original JPEG.

Has anyone else encountered a similar problem ( you Colorado folks must encounter lots of mountains and blue skies?) Can you suggest a workround?

The workflow was: Nikon D200 with Nikkor 18-200 VR lens set to RAW, 100 - 200 ISO > Nikon Capture NX RAW processing software > TIFF file into

Photoshop Elements 3 > Saved as highest quality JPEG > Pte Version 5.1 (also tried with versions 4.48 and 5.5 with same result.)

Any advice would be most welcome, Stuart

[Fants]

Hi Guys,

I suspect that's a typo and that his files are 2 megabytes instead of 2 gigabytes. I don't think it's possible to create 2 gigabyte files with any present digital camera unless you are stitching a couple hundred full sized images and in such case the limit for PTE and Windows 32 bit for a "total" single file size is 2 gigabytes. I think we can safely assume that it's 2Mb - LOL.

Best regards,

Lin