Inconsistent behaviour of Slide List/Timeline and Fullscreen views

[fh1805]

I am using PTEv5.5 and developing a one-day workshop on PTE for the members of my local Photography Society. I have found some apparent inconsistencies in the behaviour of PTE in the area of the Slides view, Timeline view and the Fullscreen views of these.

First inconsistency:

If, from the Slides view I click on the Fullscreen View icon in the bottom right hand corner of the window, then in this view I can select slides by Click, Shift+Click or Ctrl+Click - i.e. I can select individual slides, a contiguous group of slides or a non-contiguous collection. This is as I would expect it to be.

If, from the Timeline view I click on the Fullscreen View icon in the bottom right hand corner of the window, then in this view I can select slides by Click or Shift+Click but not by Ctrl+Click (or at least they don't get highlighted as being selected) - i.e. I can select individual slides or a group of slides but not a collection.

Is there a rational reason for not being allowed to select a collection when in Fullscreen view from the Timeline view?

Second inconsistency:

If in the Slides view I select some slides and press Del, they are removed from the Slide List and the gaps on the timeline are closed up. If I go into the Fullscreen view, select some slides, right-click on one and then select the "Remove Slide from Slide List" I get the same behaviour. This is as I would expect it to be.

If in the Timeline view I select some slides and press Del, they are removed from the Slide List and the gaps on the timeline are not closed up. If I go into the Fullscreen view, select some slides, right-click on one and then select the "Remove Slide from Slide List" I get the same behaviour. Again, this is as I would expect it to be - except that the action is described as "Remove Slide from Slide List" which made me think it would close up the gaps just as if I had done the action from the Slide List.

Perhaps it would be better on the right-click menu to call it "Remove Slide from Slide List" on the Fullscreen view of the Slide List but call it "Remove Slide from Timeline" on the Fullscreen view of the Timeline.

Is it possible to have both options shown on the right-click menu from the Fullscreen views?

- "Remove Slides from Slide List" on one of Del or Shift+Del - closes the gaps on the timeline

- "Remove Slides from Timeline" on the other of Del or Shift+Del - leaves gaps on the timeline

[claessens]

Is it possible to have both options shown on the right-click menu from the Fullscreen views?

- "Remove Slides from Slide List" on one of Del or Shift+Del - closes the gaps on the timeline

- "Remove Slides from Timeline" on the other of Del or Shift+Del - leaves gaps on the timeline

Hi Peter,

I have also noticed this inconsistent behaviour.

There is another point I would like to stress in this respect: whether in Slide List or Timeline mode one should _always_ have the option of closing or leaving the time gap.

Recently I was doing some refining work on a 200 slide project for which I had carefully edited a soundtrack.

At a certain moment I decided to delete a slide in order to have some more time for a special effect in the previous slide.

To make a long story short: I ended up with a closed time gap and all my carefully synchronised points following the deleted slide were gone!

Luckily I had made a project backup...

[xahu34]

...

To make a long story short: I ended up with a closed time gap and all my carefully synchronised points following the deleted slide were gone...

Sorry,

where does the long story come from? You could have used the undo function, read the display time of the slide to be deleted, added this time to the display time of previous slide. Then the gap closing removal would have worked fine.

Best regards,

Xaver

Munich

[Igor]

Peter,

I'll fix both bugs in the nearest update 5.5.1

Thanks,

[Igor]

Please try updated 5.51 Beta:

http://www.wnsoft.com/apr/apr-deluxe_beta.zip

[fh1805]

Igor,

Firstly, it is now possible to select an individual image (Click), a group (Shift+Click) or a collection (Ctrl+Click) in the Slide List, in the Timeline and in the Fullscreen view when taken from both the Slide List and from the Timeline. Thanks for correcting that anomaly.

From here on things get a little more complicated!

From the Slide List, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Del key always results in the gap being closed up when one switches to the Timeline display.

From the Slide List, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Shift+Del key always results in the gap being closed up when one switches to the Timeline display.

From the Fullscreen view taken from the Slide List, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Del key always results in the gap being closed up when one switches to the Timeline display.

From the Fullscreen view taken from the Slide List, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Shift+Del key always results in the gap being closed up when one switches to the Timeline display.

From the Timeline, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Del key always results in the selected slide(s) and all slides to the right being moved along the timeline by an amount equal to the duration of the first of the selected slides.

From the Timeline, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Shift+Del key always results in the gap being left in place.

From the Fullscreen view taken from the Timeline, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Del key always results in the gap being closed up.

From the Fullscreen view taken from the Timeline, the deletion of a single slide, a group or a collection using the Shift+Del key always results in the gap being closed up.

So, to try and summarise:

- 1. Deleting via the Slide List or via the Fullscreen view navigated to via the Slide List is behaving consistently and as one would have expected from the behaviour of all previous releases of PTE

- 2. Shift+Deleting via the Slide List or via the Fullscreen view navigated to via the Slide List is behaving consistently with the above

- 3. Deleting via the Timeline is closing up the gaps

- 4. Shift+Deleting via the Timeline is not closing up the gaps

- 5. Deleting from the Fullscreen view navigated to via the Timeline is closing up the gaps

- 6. Shift+Deleting from the Fullscreen view navigated to via the Timeline is closing up the gaps

1 and 2 above seem OK to me. 3 and 4 give the flexibility to either close the gaps or not - which is a nice option to have. One of 5 or 6 is not behaving consistently with the rest.

In 3, 4, 5 and 6 above I wonder if it would actually be more logical from the user's point of view to have Shift+Del close up the gaps (i.e. shift the timepoints) and have Del merely remove the slide without closing up the gaps. In other words, swap 3 and 4 around and then bring 5 and 6 into line.

Hope I've managed to explain the situation clearly enough for you to understand things.

[xahu34]

Hi Peter,

I thought that "Del" in the timeline means Cut (as it is called in PTE v5.5, kind of shift), not a removal. I myself would prefer a consistent naming of functions: Function x should always give the same result, independent of the context from which it was called (a "Del" should be a removal in any case, and always gap filling or always the opposite). On the other hand, I do not consider this subject as very important! You always see what happens, and you can react in an appropriate way.

Best regards

Xaver

Munich

[Igor]

Xaver,

I wouldn't change more in v5.5, please let raise this question later for v5.6

I did Del key for cutting slide(s) in the Timeline because some users very asked for this.

[xahu34]

...I did Del key for cutting slide(s) in the Timeline because some users very asked for this...

Igor,

I know this. Although I do not like this context dependent behaviour very much, I do not regard it as anything important (as I said above). So, don't worry about my comment. Make a change, or leave it as it is!

Best regards,

Xaver

By the way: My pseudonym in the forum is "Xaver", while Munich is the place where I live, located in Bavaria, South Germany.

[Igor]

Excuse me, Xaver!

I've edited my previous post.

[fh1805]

In response to Xaver's posts above, and after thinking this matter through some more, I offer the following thoughts...

It seems that there are four possible kinds of "deletion" that we, as users, might like to have available:

1. Delete slide "n" from the Slide List and, by implication, from the Timeline and have all slides "n+1" onwards move to the left by an amount of time equal to the duration of slide "n" (the action that I have previously described as closing the gap).

2. Delete slide "n" from the Slide List and, by implication, from the Timeline and have slide "n-1"'s duration increased by an amount of time equal to the duration of slide "n" (the action that I have previously described as leaving the gap intact).

3. Option 1 plus the deleted slide gets placed at the end of the project as the last slide (equivalent to "the current "Cut Transition")

4. Option 2 plus the deleted slide gets placed at the end of the project as the last slide (equivalent to "the current "Cut Transition")

I have explained the above in terms of a single slide but the actions are equally applicable to a group or a collection.

There are four possible actions and there are four possible keyboard short cuts that could be used: Del, Shift+Del, Ctrl+Del and Alt+Del.

I agree with Xaver's point that a keyboard shortcut should, ideally, not be context-dependent. So it seems to me that there is an opportunity here to make PTE behave in a consistent manner, with the flexibility that ought to be present and to have keyboard shortcuts to go with the command menu options.

The remaining decision is: which keyboard shortcut should go with which action?

[RonH]

First of all let me belatedly congratulate Igor and the team on v 5.5 which I think is a huge advancement in PTE. But I do agree with Peter that there needs to be consistency in the actions. I came across the problem during the compilation of a 200 slide programme and it took some time to work out where everything had gone by which time Ctrl Z was of no use.

I thought that checking ‘Hold time points’ should lock the slides at their prescribed timed points or is this for anther purpose? All of Peter’s comments seem to apply even if this is checked.

That aside, I have another timeline misbehaviour. In normal view, when I take my cursor to the extreme left or right of the timeline, the position ‘jumps’ (or travels rapidly) to the extreme end or beginning of the programme. As this is a twenty minute programme that is a fair distance to drag it all back and needs careful attention so as not to alter the wrong slide. It is almost impossible to select a slide which is almost at the beginning or end of the view. I have to move the timeline so that that slide is centre screen then select it.

Has anyone else found this – or is it me?

[fh1805]

Ron,

I've just tried to re-create the problem as I understand it from your description using v5.50. I get the jump which you describe only in one set of circumstances, as follows:

Using the Timeline display, if I try and select a slide that is within two seconds or less of the extreme right hand edge of the currently visible part of the timeline then the slide is selected but the Timeline display is scrolled to position this selected slide just off the extreme left-hand edge. If the selected slide is over two seconds away from the right hand edge I dont get the repositioning of the timeline, just the selection of the slide as expected.

I am unable to recreate the "jump" when selecting a slide that is close to, or overlapped with, the left hand edge of the view.

[jfa]

That aside, I have another timeline misbehaviour. In normal view, when I take my cursor to the extreme left or right of the timeline, the position ‘jumps’ (or travels rapidly) to the extreme end or beginning of the programme. As this is a twenty minute programme that is a fair distance to drag it all back and needs careful attention so as not to alter the wrong slide. It is almost impossible to select a slide which is almost at the beginning or end of the view. I have to move the timeline so that that slide is centre screen then select it.

Ron,

There was a bug in one of the Beta versions of v5.5 that caused a problem very similar to your description when "View > Timeline Options > AutoScroll - Style 2" was selected. Igor fixed this in a later beta, so if you haven't got the latest version I suggest you download it and give it a try.

Here:

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....c=8400&st=0

Using the Timeline display, if I try and select a slide that is within two seconds or less of the extreme right hand edge of the currently visible part of the timeline then the slide is selected but the Timeline display is scrolled to position this selected slide just off the extreme left-hand edge. If the selected slide is over two seconds away from the right hand edge I dont get the repositioning of the timeline, just the selection of the slide as expected.

Peter,

I too get the behaviour you describe but only when AutoScroll - Style 1 or 2 is selected. When Don't Use Auto-Scrolling is selected the timeline reacts correctly, (it does not jump).

This may be a small hangover bug from the previous one I suspect. It certainly isn't the desired behaviour in the timeline for me and hopefully Igor will address it in the future.

[fh1805]

Just confirming that I use "Auto-Scroll - Style 2".

[RonH]

Thanks Peter/John On checking I only see this phenomenon when AutoScroll 1 is selected but perhaps John is right – perhaps it is a hang-over from the 5.5 beta that he mentions because following Peter’s timeline problem I downloaded Igor’s fix in 5.51 beta and the problem is very much reduced.

Appreciate the time you spent on this guys, the problem is almost solved but in any case it’s nice to know that it was not something I have missed.

Regards RonH