Windows Service Pack 3

[Barry Beckham]

Lin

Well that makes the world of difference !

[smithrg]

I suspect that much of the resentment against Vista and Microsoft as well as pro Vista and Microsoft stems from a very basic difference in user's attitudes about what an "operating system" is and should be.

Those of us who grew up with Unix, CPM, etc., and know the true history of how Microsoft and Windows came to prominence have a different attitude than that of the younger set who have simply grown up with and accepted that Microsoft operating systems are the cat's meow and that "advances" and new and different is generally better.

This is just a little micro-history lesson on the non-Apple PC side for those who don't know about how things used to be back in the stone age of micro-computers when folks like Adam Osborne (Osborne Computers), Gary Kildall (Digital Research Inc./CPM), Dan Bricklin (VisiCalc), Wayne Ratliff (dBase II), Rob Barbany (WordStar), etc., were about.

In those days the competition to Apple's fledgling micro-computers was based on the operating system written by Gary Kildall called CPM. CPM was an innovative operating system which fit easily on a 5.25" floppy disk drive and took up a tiny bit of space yet allowed micro-computers such as the Kaypro, Osborne, etc., to work very well indeed with software such as WordStar (word processing), VisiCalc (electronic spreadsheet), dBase II (data management), and other useful programs. The operating system written by Gary was an 8 bit masterpiece which had tiny, tight code and very few bugs.

When IBM decided to branch into the micro-computer world they would introduce a more powerful system requiring a 16 bit operating system. Gary had licensed CPM for a clone of the Altair 8800 and by 1981 his CPM operating system was in use on over 3000 different computer models. IBM approached Gary about licensing his soon to be released CPM/86 (a 16 bit version) but negotiations fell through and IBM ended up licensing a CPM "clone" from SCP (Seattle Computer Products) which had infringed on Gary's code. After a threat to IBM, the company settled for a release of liability and an agreement to offer CPM/86 as an "option". In those days the operating system was a "neccesary" but non-bundled option and IBM sold their purloined PC DOS version (via SCP) for $40 and offered CPM/86 for $240 so you can guess which version the public purchased.

Bill Gates and his fledgling company Microsoft were already working in a consulting role for IBM and eventually took over development of the operating system and for a time both PC-DOS and MS-DOS were available. Eventually MS-DOS won out and the rest is well known history. Gary sold DRI to Novell in 1991 and in July of 1994 he fell or was "assaulted" (history is not clear on this) at a restaurant in Monterey, California and died three days later in the Community Hospital in Monterey.

Gary always said Bill Gates ripped him off and stole his code. I for one firmly believe this. One then might say (assuming this to be the case - and there is good evidence that it is) that Microsoft was founded on "theft" and they have a well-established" pattern of unfair dealings and trashing the rights and destroying smaller companies which try to stand up to them.

So early operating systems were small, well coded and could be housed on a tiny part of a 360K byte disc. Today, Vista takes huge chunks of storage space and hogs resources. It could be said that a major portion of your computer's resources are dedicated to simply running the "operating system". This is in stark contrast to what many of us believe an operating system should be. Many believe an operating system "should" be designed to facilitate running "application software" rather than making developers bend to the will of the developers of that operating system.

I ran a successful software development company of my own for many years in the early days prior to Windows. As Windows gradually took over the world, I was forced to either comply and give more and more of my control to the "operating system" or get out of the business. I chose the latter. So for me, bigger overhead, less user control and a "nanny" attitude by an "operating system" doesn't set well. Change for the sake of change with added confusion, nanny - "let me do it for you" control and so on are counter-productive.

Choice is good. Hopefully, in the future the monopoly Microsoft has on PC computer operating systems will be broken and we will be able to perhaps once again have small, concise code which allows the user to make choices rather than forcing them to work within the confines of some MS indoctrinated "software engineer's" idea of how things should be done.

Lin

Hi Lin, I totally agree with what you are saying, that's why I am trying Linux Ubuntu 8.04 on one of my 3 computers.

The guy that keeps trashing you, thinks he's so cute, and knows everything about everything. I think the reason he's on this forum is to sell his crap, and

what business is it of his how someone obtains their software? He mentions this quite often, while telling everyone how important he is.

I know PTE doesen't run on Linux, but there is no single program, that I can't live without, since I'm retired and don't have to try and sell anything.

Best wishes, Gayland

[xahu34]

...The guy that keeps trashing you, thinks he's so cute, and knows everything about everything. I think the reason he's on this forum is to sell his crap...

robertg,

In Germany we use the expression "Die feine englische Art" which expresses something like "The proper way to go about things". How would you call your style?

Regards,

Xaver H.

Munich

[Antbrewer]

Oh boy!!!!

I wonder what response we get this post?????

Anthony

[xahu34]

...I wonder what response we get this post...

Hello Anthony,

Do you really expect a response? I consider my question (more or less) as rhetorical in nature.

Best regards,

Xaver

[mhwarner]

It could be said that a major portion of your computer's resources are dedicated to simply running the "operating system".

Lin

Indeed, look at the way the basic hardware requirements keep increasing with each new version of MS' operating systems. Somehow, I doubt that the computer makers are unhappy with the situation. They are definitely all "in bed" together.

I'll stick with XP2 until I have no choice next April when they quit issuing security patches for it. Maybe by then, the rest of the kinks will be worked out. Unlike those here who are retired, or "hobbyists", I am still earning my living from computer programming and can't afford any problems whatsoever.

[wideangle]

Hi Lin, I totally agree with what you are saying, that's why I am trying Linux Ubuntu 8.04 on one of my 3 computers.

The guy that keeps trashing you, thinks he's so cute, and knows everything about everything. I think the reason he's on this forum is to sell his crap, and

what business is it of his how someone obtains their software? He mentions this quite often, while telling everyone how important he is.

I know PTE doesen't run on Linux, but there is no single program, that I can't live without, since I'm retired and don't have to try and sell anything.

Best wishes, Gayland

Robertg

Some opinions are valued, some are not.

All the unjustified and unqualified comments here are uncalled for. Come on, let's be constructive please.

Wideangle

[smithrg]

Robertg

Some opinions are valued, some are not.

All the unjustified and unqualified comments here are uncalled for. Come on, let's be constructive please.

Wideangle

Wideangle,

Valued or not I can have my say. I don't pretend to be anything but an average guy without PTE or photographic skills, I

just take snapshots and make little simple shows. I cannot enter competition, and would not know how, or where, if I were.

What I do know is that some, on this forum, take little jabs at those of us less talented, therefore, I would never even think about submitting a slideshow to be judged.

I apologize to the forum members that feel offended.

Best regards, Gayland.

[wideangle]

Wideangle,

Valued or not I can have my say. I don't pretend to be anything but an average guy without PTE or photographic skills, I

just take snapshots and make little simple shows. I cannot enter competition, and would not know how, or where, if I were.

What I do know is that some, on this forum, take little jabs at those of us less talented, therefore, I would never even think about submitting a slideshow to be judged.

I apologize to the forum members that feel offended.

Best regards, Gayland.

Thanks for that reply.

You know, I'm much the same as you in terms of photographic talents, but always very willing to learn from everybody.

The irony is that I have actually bought some of the materials which you described in your first comment, and find them to be a million miles from your description. In fact, from my personal experience, I would recommend them to you as an excellent way to brush up those basic skills of yours!

Anyway, all the best,

Wideangle

[Antbrewer]

Gayland,

I read this forum frequently and have never seen or felt that 'some' (who ever they are) ever take jabs at the 'less talented' (who ever they are).

I think you'll find that many of us consider ourselves average guys. However there are some very learned people who contribute on these pages and from whom we can learn a lot.

I for one find your thoughts on this point rather unnecssary and the inference a little insulting.

Anthony

[Guest Yachtsman1]

I think the moderater should step in here before this forum stoops to the level of other similar forums.

Yachtsman1

[Ken Cox]

Eric

what do you want me to do -put everybody on warning - people are stating their opinion -- is that not what an open forum is for?

the problem i see is people are not reading the info on the service pack that i personally have supplied and they are limiting their infomation quest to this forum - they are not going on the general web to get information

ken

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric

what do you want me to do -put everybody on warning - people are stating their opinion -- is that not what an open forum is for?

the problem i see is people are not reading the info on the service pack that i personally have supplied and they are limiting their infomation quest to this forum - they are not going on the general web to get information

ken

Things are getting personal, which is what happens in many forums, I haven't seen it here before.

Yachtsman1

[xahu34]

...they are limiting their infomation quest to this forum - they are not going on the general web to get information...

Ken,

I totally agree, and even experienced users feed or even initiate these off-topic threads. Let me again propose to open an off-topic part of the forum where all these repeated SP3 discussions and similar ones could be moved.

Best regards,

Xaver

[potwnc]

I agree too... there's no reason to get personal in this forum! Misunderstandings happen and then - hopefully - everyone cools down?

I'd be very sad if this forum deteriorated to focusing on off-topic material. If there was an "off-topic" forum I could safely ignore it!

Ray

[fh1805]

We are in danger of "knee-jerk" reacting to what is a very rare event on this forum.

I have been a very active member of this forum since March 2007 and have read almost every post made since I joined the forum. This thread is the only one in all that time that has shown any signs of heading off in a potentially unpleasant direction. If we all let the dust settle I'm sure this thread will find its natural and proper home.

Recently, Ken Cox "sponsored" my being elevated to a Moderator (primarily to make things easier for me while building the FAQ system). When I asked him what being a Moderator meant he said life would be easy, that the forum members "...are a pretty good bunch. They don't give any trouble..."

Please don't go and tarnish your reputation!

regards,

Peter

[xahu34]

Peter,

I would like to see you as a moderator of this forum!

Regarding this thread, I do not see any knee jerk reactions. A particular member has used some words which others did not consider as being appropriate, that's all; and there will always be discussions if off-topic subjects should be placed somewhere else, or if it is useful that some members offer their products/tutorials/templates again and again. In April this year I made an experience having quite a different "quality", where somebody tried to shift me into a particular political corner.

Best regards,

Xaver

[smithrg]

We are in danger of "knee-jerk" reacting to what is a very rare event on this forum.

I have been a very active member of this forum since March 2007 and have read almost every post made since I joined the forum. This thread is the only one in all that time that has shown any signs of heading off in a potentially unpleasant direction. If we all let the dust settle I'm sure this thread will find its natural and proper home.

Recently, Ken Cox "sponsored" my being elevated to a Moderator (primarily to make things easier for me while building the FAQ system). When I asked him what being a Moderator meant he said life would be easy, that the forum members "...are a pretty good bunch. They don't give any trouble..."

Please don't go and tarnish your reputation!

regards,

Peter

Hi everyone,

I have apoligized, for my actions, and that's all I can do. My personal opinions, will not be posted again.

If I knew how, I would remove the offending posts, so we could get on with more pleasent subjets.

May I blame my lack of good manners on our hurricane?

The end, Gayland

[Ken Cox]

Gayland

you spoke the truth so i hope you continue to do contribute -- the more truth that is spoke the better off we all are

ken

[jfa]

you spoke the truth so i hope you continue to do contribute -- the more truth that is spoke the better off we all are

Well said Ken I totally agree. Don't stop putting your point of view Gayland, maybe next time consider your choice of words more but keep giving us all your messages.