About locking the background music file

[uuderzo]

Hello.

I'm happily working with PTE 5.5 and Audacity 1.2.x.

Everything is ok but I noticed that PTE locks the background music file while the project is onscreen,

even if it's not playing.

This leads to the following: I must close the project before exporting Audacity modifications of

my background music. If I don't close PTE, Audacity gives me a "file is locked" error message.

Do you think it's possible to avoid locking the file while editing the project?

Obviously while playing it's not possible...

Avoiding the file locking will boost my productivity because I'll only need to switch between the two applications

without "glitches"

Bye!

[fh1805]

Umberto,

The way I work around this is to export my soundtrack file from Audacity but give it a version number (e.g. ProjectA-ST1, then ProjectA-ST2, etc.). In this way, Audacity can always successfully write the file. And then all you need to do is go into Project Options in PTE and "Remove" your existing soundtrack file and "Add" the new one. Adopting this approach means you can always take your PTE project back to an earlier state because you have all the previous versions of your soundtrack.

regards,

Peter

[uuderzo]

Thanks for your reply Peter.

Mmmmh... since I don't need a versioning of the soundtrack the way you work looks to me a bit complicated (and disk hungry).

For me it's easier to ALT-F4 PTE and Win+SPACE - enter (I use Launchy, great app indeed!) to restore it.

Since PTE reloads the last project this procedure it's faster.

But avoiding also these simple steps may be nicer.

I don't mean I'll hate PTE for that... I simply mean that it could be nicer

Obviously, I don't know if closing the sountrack file leads to PTE misfunctioning... maybe it's necessary for waveform displaying?

Bye!

Umberto,

The way I work around this is to export my soundtrack file from Audacity but give it a version number (e.g. ProjectA-ST1, then ProjectA-ST2, etc.). In this way, Audacity can always successfully write the file. And then all you need to do is go into Project Options in PTE and "Remove" your existing soundtrack file and "Add" the new one. Adopting this approach means you can always take your PTE project back to an earlier state because you have all the previous versions of your soundtrack.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Consider this:

An MP3 file is like a JPEG - the more you open it, edit it and resave it the more compressed it gets and it loses quality.

I ALWAYS go back to the WAV file to edit and make changes and then save as MP3 to the PTE folder WITH THE SAME NAME.

It doesn't matter if PTE is open or not - it will overwrite the previous file.

It is quicker, more convenient and it remains at first copy quality with minimum compression.

It is "crazy" to do it any other way (my opinion).

DaveG

[fh1805]

DaveG,

I was somewhat remiss in my earlier post in not making it clear that I was working in WAV files all the time. The only time I export as MP3 is when I'm satisfied that the soundtrack file is exactly as I want it for the final form of the sequence.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

A parallel question on this thread. When I rip my tracks from a CD I rip them as MP3 files. I then import them into Audacity mix them with a WAV voice over and MP3 sound effects. Am I degrading the items imported as MP3 then double degrading when I download the finished item as MP3???

Yachtsman1

[uuderzo]

When I work at the background sountrack I create an Audacity project and import all the piece of music I need. After that I time shift all the pieces to suit my needs.

When something needs to be adjusted I shift and envelope always the original pieces. It's obvious that I don't reload and modify the exported mp3. This will drastically lower the quality at each iteration (and makes more difficult to work since I cannot adjust the single pieces of music).

So, to make it clear: I don't reload the exported mp3 (locked by PTE). I only need to overwrite it with another export. And the project is always saved so I can make more adjustents to the original sounds and then re-export.

Bye!

[Barry Beckham]

I think Umberto has a point here as I miss the ability to do exactly what he says he wants. To make a quick and simple change to the soundtrack and have it straight back in PTE directly from the sound editor. We always could with PTE4.

I personally think this quality argument is overstated and anyway that is the authors choice. Its just a suggestion.

I have always worked as Umberto would like to and have never had any issues with sound quality. Well, not to my ears anyway.

I applaud the effort put into wave files to retain quality, shame we don't see the same effort with the images.

[davegee]

Umberto,

I read your original post again and I understand a little better!

I have never experienced this - every time I modify the original sound track (in Audition) and export the MP3 it overwrites the MP3 in the PTE Project folder without any error messages (even with the project open).

This leads me to think that there is no problem with PTE but rather with something in your computer setup?

Yachtsman,

When converting tracks from CD to HDD it makes more sense to save them as WAV files if they are going to be edited.

If they are going straight into PTE - no problem - go to MP3 immediately.

If your "original" is already an MP3 (download etc) then first save it as a WAV (you haven't gained or lost anything) to distinguish it from edited MP3 copies.

DaveG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Yachtsman,

When converting tracks from CD to HDD it makes more sense to save them as WAV files if they are going to be edited.

If they are going straight int, o PTE - no problem - go to MP3 immediately.

If your "original" is already an MP3 (download etc) then first save it as a WAV (you haven't gained or lost anything) to distinguish it from edited MP3 copies.

DaveG

[davegee]

What I was suggesting was that if you are going to work on a music file for which you only have an MP3 version file it might be a good idea to save it as a WAV file before editing. That way, any edits and saves you make will not degrade it any further until you finally save to MP3.

If the MP3 you save is not what you wanted or requires further editing go back to the WAV version to do the edits - don't edit the saved MP3.

By the way, I always use 256 Kbps for my MP3 files - a good compromise between quality and small file size.

DaveG

[uuderzo]

Davegee,

I did some more testing about the lock of the file.

I work on Windows Vista Home Premium.

Tested the following cases:

1. Trying to overwrite the music file with PTE just opened on the project and waveform not visible.

2. Trying to overwrite the music file with PTE just opened on the project and waveform visible.

3. Trying to overwrite the music file with PTE just opened on the project and waveform visible and then put to not visible.

In each case the overwriting of the file by Audacity was blocked by a file locked error message.

Just for you to know, maybe it's fixable in next release.

Thanks! Umberto.

[davegee]

Umberto,

I'm using XP and Audition.

DaveG

[fh1805]

DaveG,

Are you hinting that Umberto's problem may be Vista related? I think you could be right. I'm hoping to do some tests later on today.

regards

Peter

[Barry Beckham]

Umberto

I use Vista business and find the same issues as you do with regards to a locked music file. It isn't the be all and end of course, all we need to do is change the name of the sound file each time we adjust it and re-save it. However, there are times when for speed I don't want to do that and I miss the opportunity to just hit save from my sound editor and be back in PTE in seconds.

With the greatest respect to experienced users of PTE on this site I think that the music quality issue is a little over stated. I have thousands of music tracks on my PC and listen to lots of it and I can't hear the difference between Mp3 music sampled at 128 Kpbs or at higher levels. I am listening through a good quality amplifier and quality headphones where sound quality is far more evident.

I have put together loads of soundtracks and have never used Wav files at all and I have never detected any quality issues. Those who know me are aware that I am pretty keen on image quality and the same goes with the soundtrack too. I would be onto it in a flash if I thought my slide show sound was below par.

As this seems to be a Vista issue, perhaps it isn't a PTE thing at all and Igor may not be able to do anything about it. I have noticed that the increased security of Vista does seem to throw up a number of small odd things different from XP.

[davegee]

Hi Barry,

There were two difference - Vista AND Audacity / XP AND Audition.

Not to dwell too much on the quality issues with MP3's but as you state the difference in quality between WAV and MP3 is very little provided that the quality of the MP3 is 128Kbps or above (I use 256Kbps).

My arguement is, and always has been, that you do not continually edit/save/edit/save/edit/save MP3s.

You SHOULD, for best quality, go back to the WAV file OR original MP3 to do that sort of editing.

Same thing applies to TIFF and JPEG files.

DaveG

[Barry Beckham]

But with Mp3 files we are not constantly doing that. We may change the project file a little, hardly the same as major work with a Jpg.

We need to be careful on forums that we don't over state things and make it sound as though unless we work in wav files we are losing lots of quality. If I am, I or none of you have ever heard anything.

I have played loads of sequences in big halls through some quite sophisticated sound systrems and as I have said, I cannot hear any quality issues working entirely in Mp3's.

[uuderzo]

Barry, I suppose DaveG misunderstood our use of mp3 files.

We don't repeatedly save/load/modify/save... the same mp3. This would lead to a progressive loss of quality at each step.

We simply import into Audacity the source musics as mp3 files. Personally, I simply shift the entire mp3 source to adjust timing (no resampling) and do some volume envelope. All these operations does not affect the original mp3 quality.

So executing repeatedly adjust/export/adjust/export etc... does not lead to a progressive loss of quality.

When you save the project it is saved in original quality, and this is always the starting point of each adjustment. Once the priject has been exported in mp3 format, the exported file will be read only by PTE, not again by Audacity.

Yes, the export quality in mp3 format is a bit lower than the original mp3 source, but this step is always performed once.

I found that working with 192Kbps mp3s leads to good results (to my ears, and I suppose to most people ears).

But with Mp3 files we are not constantly doing that. We may change the project file a little, hardly the same as major work with a Jpg.

We need to be careful on forums that we don't over state things and make it sound as though unless we work in wav files we are losing lots of quality. If I am, I or none of you have ever heard anything.

I have played loads of sequences in big halls through some quite sophisticated sound systrems and as I have said, I cannot hear any quality issues working entirely in Mp3's.