Question about displaying real file name

[Igor]

What you think, if we remove an abstract (and not used anywhere) project name? As in all other programs, PTE will operate with real file name of opened project file. So after openning of MyPresentation.pte file caption of the main window displays "PicturesToExe v4.10 - MyPresentation".

And if you rename this MyPresentation.pte file into MyWork.pte, PTE will display updated name - "PicturesToExe v4.10 - MyWork".

p.s. we had been asked many times for this correction

[ccmanz]

I would like this.

I think too, when you do a save as......

the file you just saved should become

your active file

I know I have saved over projects

When I exit and it asks me if I want to

save my changes thinking I was saving

as my new name only to save over

an old project.

I hope others will like this too

cc

[alrobin]

Amen, brother!

[LumenLux]

Igor I think it would be a better understood usage. Yes, good idea.

I think also, as cc suggests, the "saved as" file becoming the active file, it would be safer and like "most" (?) programs do as convention. Then after you have done a "saved as", your original file is out of danger unless you very intentionally save over it.

[jimlarkey]

Yes!!

Thanks & Cheers,

Jim

[think(box)]

Yes - please!

Related question - The taskbar show "name" or window title from this .PTE file entry:

opt_scr_caption=

I use this to create a show name as viewed in the taskbar. If I don't manually edit the .PTE file to add the show name to "opt_scr_caption=" line, it ends up blank (no name) in taskbar and in "opt_scr_caption=". There is no apparent connection between either the .PTE or .EXE file name and the show name in taskbar.

Igor, could you tell us where PTE gets this name from, or if not, can you give us a "Show name for taskbar" box in Project Options?

Thank you

[Igor]

Ok, then let's try out new beta #10

p.s. taskbar displays name from "Caption of window" (Screen tab).

If it's not assigned in beta #10, it will display the name of .exe file.

[think(box)]

Thanks Igor for the quick response. I tested and it doesn't work correctly.

In Windowed mode show if I open a project with blank "opt_scr_caption=" and Create, the show window title still comes out blank, when you say it should be .exe name. Maybe this is because .exe name already exists in PTE file? I did not do "Create slideshow as", and shouldn't have to.

In Full-screen show mode PTE still "grays out" the "Caption of window" box in screen tab, but should not. Even though it is a full screen show with no window border, the taskbar can still (but does not) display the show name as the .exe file name. When I have edited the .PTE file and added a name to "opt_scr_caption=" it appears "grayed" in "Caption of window" (as before in PTE) yet always has successfully become the full-screen show taskbar show name. This is the "back door" approach that has to be used, and this has not changed from what I can tell.

I will be away for about 1/2 day and back this evening (Eastern US time) in case new testing is needed. Thanks for looking into this!

[Igor]

Ok, in the full screen mode it always will display name of .exe file in the taskbar. And "Caption of window" (opt_scr_caption) if windowed mode.

Is it more correct? By the way, in the full screen you can't see taskbar.

[alrobin]

p.s. taskbar displays name from "Caption of window" (Screen tab).

If it's not assigned in beta #10, it will display the name of .exe file.

Igor,

It will do this only if the default "project name" is used for the ".exe" name. If "Caption of window" is blank, the taskbar will be blank too.

In my beta #10, both "Project Options / Screen / Caption of window" and the taskbar display the "project name" if nothing is input to change this. If one changes the ".exe" file name when saving, the taskbar still shows the "project name", which is no longer relevant.

However, if one changes the ".exe" file name to something different from the default "project name" both the taskbar and "Caption of window" should show this ".exe" file name unless the creator has selected a different name or no name at all in "Project Options / Screen / Caption of window".

In this latter case, I would prefer to see no name in the Windowed-mode caption, and the ".exe" name in the taskbar.

Also, I agree with Bill that it should be possible to change this name in the case of full-screen shows as well.

Hope this hasn't made things more confusing!

[alrobin]

Is it more correct? By the way, in the full screen you can't see taskbar.

Igor,

You posted again before I released my previous reply.

Yes, you can see the taskbar if you press "Alt - tab".

I feel it is simpler if the taskbar always shows the name of the "exe" file, and the window (if used) shows either the "exe" file name or the "Caption of window" entry (if different from the "exe" file name).

[nobeefstu]

Bill,

When I have edited the .PTE file and added a name to "opt_scr_caption=" it appears "grayed" in "Caption of window" (as before in PTE) yet always has successfully become the full-screen show taskbar show name. This is the "back door" approach that has to be used, and this has not changed from what I can tell.

If your creating a FULL SCREEN MODE show and want to have a "Caption of Window" taskbar button display name (like the WINDOWED MODE) ... you can easily achieve this by clicking-setting the Windowed Mode (radio button). Enter the Name you require ... and then click-set back to the Fullscreen Mode (radio button). Their is no need to manually edit the PTE file to have this Caption of Window name.

Also, concerning this new idea of using a default name for taskbar button name. I personally do not want see the "Caption Of Window" (whether its left blank or has a name entered by Us) ...change to some Exe Name by default if its left empty by me. I believe all has been fine in prior versions in this entry box .. if its left blank ... it should remain blank.

What is the intention of this auto name to a default button name if user has left entry empty ? for speed or laziness ?

Hopefully I have not mis -understood this topic here ... its a bit confusing and may need more clarity. My discussion above only relates to the Caption of Window name used that is relative of the taskbar button name displayed of a compiled exe only.

[alrobin]

Also, concerning this new idea of using a default name for taskbar button name. I personally do not want see the "Caption Of Window" (whether its left blank or has a name entered by Us) ...change to some Exe Name by default if its left empty by me.

Stu,

I agree with you but for one minor point - now when you blank out the "Caption Of Window" setting, the taskbar also blanks out, which defeats the point of the taskbar. Not a big deal, though, as I am sure everyone would know which of the items on the taskbar applies to the finished, and playing, show. However, it could get confusing if one also had PTE open as one of the items on the taskbar.

[think(box)]

Igor, Al, Stu, I have a proposed solution that should be best for everyone. First, some reasoning:

• I often want different .EXE file name from desired taskbar and window title name, or "Caption"
  
• I create variations in shows that must have unique .EXE file name, yet the same base show name in Caption
  
• If I change the .EXE name I do not want the Caption to change when I have entered a unique value for it
  
• If a window border is used, the window title caption and taskbar caption must match. On this point I disagree with Al, since it is expected Microsoft Windows function that they match.
  
• Novice users should not have to do anything to get a Caption. On this point I disagree with Stu (see note at end Stu)
  

So how does this sound for best solution?:

In Windowed AND Full-Screen modes, every time a .EXE is created with a changed or new .EXE name, check the existing Caption against the old and new .EXE file names using this PTE logic, in this order:

• When File->New menu is used, the Caption text box should be CLEARED to avoid novice user confusion
  
• If old .EXE name is NULL (e.g. after File->New) AND Caption box is NULL then make Caption equal new .EXE name
  
• If old .EXE name matches Caption then make Caption equal new .EXE name
  

NOTES and other PTE code changes:

• If new .EXE name matches old .EXE name then the above logic will not change Caption
  
• Al & Stu - if you want a blank caption, you enter a <space> character in Caption box (this is not NULL)
  
• PTE must NEVER gray out "Caption of window". It is used for both WINDOWED and FULL-SCREEN modes.
  
• The terminology "Caption of window" in PTE Project Options Screen tab is correct for both Windowed mode and Full-Screen mode, since a Full-Screen view is still a "window" yet without border (think!)
  
• When Templates are used, keep (do not clear) Caption from Template; the above logic still applies
  

By the way Al and Igor - you can easily see taskbar while P2E show is in full-screen mode by pressing the "Windows" key (between Ctrl and Alt), not Alt-Tab. Sometimes when you use taskbar "Autohide" you can get the taskbar to show by moving the mouse/cursor to screen edge where the taskbar will appear, even with hidden cursor. Windows is not consistent in this behavior, so the "Windows" key is sometimes or often or always needed when moving the mouse doesn't restore the taskbar. THEN, once that pesky taskbar is displayed on your full-screen show, to get rid of it click once or twice on the P2E show's task button and move the mouse/cursor away from taskbar.

And Stu, I knew about the other "back door" approach of temporarily declaring my show to be "Windowed" so that the grayed out "Caption of window" box is usable. It does not make sense that something grayed out will be USED in an active document or show, etc. Therefore I haven't even mentioned this as something people should use. No one should ever count upon this software behavior. It just leads to confusion and problems.

I disagree with Stu about leaving Caption blank. Stu, if you want "blank" then enter a <space> character in the "Caption of window" box as discussed above. To understand why I disagree with your preference for "blank" by default unless specified, think about proper function in Microsoft Windows. If you open a document or movie or game or just about anything but a web site, the name of that item is displayed in the window title, usually followed by a hyphen and the opening application name. And the taskbar task caption matches the window title. This makes sense and is the way people expect Microsoft Windows to work. You can still go your way, and everyone else sees consistent behavior from Microsoft Windows. I think this is the better choice and it answers your question "what is the intention of this auto name to a default name if user has left entry empty ? for speed or laziness ?". In essence, PTE should work like a Windows application.

Regarding Al's most recent response (to Stu) about confusion: "However, it could get confusing if one also had PTE open as one of the items on the taskbar. " Not so. PTE has one icon and P2E shows have another. They are totally distinguishable.

[nobeefstu]

Al,

Im glad were discussing the same topic ... I was a bit concerned of its varied content.

Heres my basic point :

If I create the "Caption of Window " name ( empty, blank or named) ... I have total control of the name that will be displayed in the taskbar button.

If I leave it empty and it resorts to display a default name (the exe show name in this case) ... I have lost control ... and a USER/VIEWER can now control the name of my taskbar name by renaming my compiled exe name.

[think(box)]

Stu, your point leads to a clarification of my note: The .EXE name used to set "Caption of window" should be the .EXE name used when the show "Create" function was performed in PTE! I never said that Igor should have P2E shows display the (possibly renamed) current .EXE file name when show is displayed.

You have control.

Addition after original posting:

By the way, I strongly agree about "control". The novice user gets the comfort of default Windows behavior. The more advanced user can get things to go their way. The proposed scheme works this way.

[nobeefstu]

Bill,

Your post and my previous/latest post were being written at the same time more or less ... as I have just read your post.

As long as controls/terms are defined in how to retrive the taskbar name, I agree. As common to most Windows Applications naming logic now ... when one changes the filename ... the taskbar buton display reflects the same name change.

[alrobin]

>Igor, Al, Stu, I have a proposed solution that should be best for everyone. First, some reasoning:

• I often want different .EXE file name from desired taskbar and window title name, or "Caption"
  -- IMHO, I think this would overly-complicate Igor's design requirements.
  >
  
• I create variations in shows that must have unique .EXE file name, yet the same base show name in Caption
  -- No problem - this can be accomplished now by customizing the "Caption" entry.
  >
  
• If I change the .EXE name I do not want the Caption to change when I have entered a unique value for it
  -- I agree
  >
  
• If a window border is used, the window title caption and taskbar caption must match. On this point I disagree with Al, since it is expected Microsoft Windows function that they match.
  -- I don't agree - just because Windoze usually does it this way doesn't mean it's right or the best way, or even has to be done this way. If you change the exe file name, the task bar doesn't automatically pick up the modification.
  >
  
• Novice users should not have to do anything to get a Caption. On this point I disagree with Stu (see note at end Stu)
  

So how does this sound for best solution?:

-- I'm all for a default caption. It's just that it shouldn't be restricted to the "project" name once a different "exe" name is chosen. I can see where choosing not to have a caption in the window could be desirable, but a blank toolbar entry just doesn't make sense to me. And I would like to see the name of the exe file if I am playing an exe show, even if it is distinguished by a recognizable icon.

>In Windowed AND Full-Screen modes, every time a .EXE is created with a changed or new .EXE name, check the existing Caption against the old and new .EXE file names using this PTE logic, in this order:

>

• When File->New menu is used, the Caption text box should be CLEARED to avoid novice user confusion
  >
  
• If old .EXE name is NULL (e.g. after File->New) AND Caption box is NULL then make Caption equal new .EXE name
  -- I agree so far.
  >
  
• If old .EXE name matches Caption then make Caption equal new .EXE name
  

NOTES and other PTE code changes:

>

• If new .EXE name matches old .EXE name then the above logic will not change Caption
  >
  
• Al & Stu - if you want a blank caption, you enter a <space> character in Caption box (this is not NULL)
  -- No, this is not acceptable. If the caption box is blank, then the windowed mode should be untitled.
  >
  
• PTE must NEVER gray out "Caption of window". It is used for both WINDOWED and FULL-SCREEN modes.
  -- Agree.
  >
  
• The terminology "Caption of window" in PTE Project Options Screen tab is correct for both Windowed mode and Full-Screen mode, since a Full-Screen view is still a "window" yet without border (think!)
  -- This doesn't have anything to do with the task bar. However, not too important, as one would rarely use the task bar in full-screen mode.
  >
  
• When Templates are used, keep (do not clear) Caption from Template; the above logic still applies
  

> ................snip...................

>And Stu, I knew about the other "back door" approach of temporarily declaring my show to be "Windowed" so that the grayed out "Caption of window" box is usable. It does not make sense that something grayed out will be USED in an active document or show, etc. Therefore I haven't even mentioned this as something people should use. No one should ever count upon this software behavior. It just leads to confusion and problems.

-- agree. (similar to having to put a space character in order to signify a blank window caption).

> ..................snip...................

>Regarding Al's most recent response (to Stu) about confusion: "However, it could get confusing if one also had PTE open as one of the items on the taskbar. " Not so. PTE has one icon and P2E shows have another. They are totally distinguishable.

-- To me it's odd and confusing to see a blank entry on the toolbar.

Bill,

See my comments after "--" in quoted posting. ( Your comments indicated by ">". )

Just my thoughts - on most of these "issues" we seem to be in agreement. I'd still like to see the "exe" name on the toolbar, though. Igor, you be the judge!

[think(box)]

Al, I have a new idea that incorporates your input: A way to change PTE to provide for everyone's needs without compromise to anyone's needs - except for Igor, who has to spend time coding.

It comes down to a question for the forum members and to Igor.

Should PTE be modified for independent entries as follows?:

Caption of Window (text box provided)

Caption of Taskbar (text box provided)

I do not like doing this because there is no forced match between window title and taskbar captions. A person viewing the windowed show could be confused without a match, and Windows isn't supposed to work this way. But I agree to some extent with "so what", as long as defaults best fit the novice user expectations. Your suggestion to have the "Create show" .EXE file name always listed in the taskbar is also not for everyone. But the above solution, combined with defaults that make sense to novice users, is in fact a most universal and flexible solution. And it meets your needs, as far as I can tell.

If Igor is willing to implement it, and Windows supports this, then maybe we can have it all.

If Igor won't (or can't) use two captions, then maybe he can provide a checkbox that says "Set taskbar caption to created .EXE name"

How does this sound?

[alrobin]

Bill,

Here's my beef with the taskbar and current Windows' utilization of it. Open up 7 or 8 separate appearances of MS Excel, for instance, each with a different spreadsheet, and all you will see on the taskbar, if you are lucky not to have a bunch of other programs open, too, unless you are working in 1600 x 1200 resolution, is 7 or 8 blocks, each one showing "Microsoft ...". If you open up only 4 or 5 appearances of Excel, you will probably see 4 or 5 blocks reading "Microsoft Excel -..."

Now, we all know that Excel is a Microsoft product, and we also know that the little "X" icon before the name stands for Excel. So, why in blazes do we have to be told first and foremost that it is a "Microsoft Excel" program before we are given any indication as to which spreadsheet is represented by which block? How would anyone, let alone a novice, know which block to click on to find a particular spreadsheet??? This is just an exampe, but it serves to suggest, particularly to Igor, that there is a better way to do things than the way MS chooses to do them.

Now, as to what to put on the taskbar, and what to use for a window title, I feel that someone (including a novice) who wishes to know which bar on the taskbar represents the slideshow he just clicked on and to which he wants to give focus would want to see the name of the show first and foremost. And, someone looking at the window in windowed mode already knows it is a PTE show, and probably already knows the name of the file, but would probably most like to know what the author chose to title it (not necessarily the same as the .exe file name). He or she certainly won't be using it to find the show as in the case of the taskbar. Pure and simple!!!

By the way, for my own personal needs, I don't really care that much about it as I can find these things in the dark, and I don't really care that much what the title of a show is - I just want to watch the show. But we're talking about philosophy here, and "right" vs. "wrong", and how many angels we can put on the head of a pin, etc. It does depress me, though, when I see MS bunging things up so much.

[think(box)]

Thanks Al. MS sure does provide a useless display for Excel tasks in the taskbar. They are inconsistent too, since they sometimes put the filename first (I have a taskbar button caption in front of me right now that says Test.PTE - Wordpad) and sometimes they put it last, as with Excel.

I have figured out how to override Microsoft's text for Internet Explorer and Outlook Express window and taskbar captions. I change them to poke fun at Microsoft. Perhaps this can be done for Excel too, except with filename first of course. Another small step. We can't change the behemoth, the Dark Side, but we can often work around their less intelligent moves.

So it looks like we agree more than it first appeared. The "Create" .EXE name and Author's title are best choices for taskbar caption, with the same flexibility for a window caption. The two caption choice looks like the best.

We certainly put large effort into small things sometimes, but the intentions are good and the payoff happens countless times over a period of years. We only know about someone's reaction when we were unsuccessful. Success is taken for granted in millions of ways, billions of times in today's world. Those relatively few who create the success can feel contented when they know it's working.

It could be worse. Classical composers had to die before the masses would appreciate their efforts. Not that there is any comparison here

[alrobin]

Classical composers had to die before the masses would appreciate their efforts. Not that there is any comparison here

Hi, Bill,

And visual artists too - maybe we'll be famous too someday??

Re the taskbar / window caption issue, I don't quite see it the way you described.

I still feel that the .exe file name is the one for the taskbar, and this way Igor doesn't have to add another edit box. I think another edit box would complicate things for novices, particularly, more than departing from the Windoze "norm", if you can call it that. (Excel isn't the only case where you get ambiguity, by the way.)

And, for the windows caption, I still feel that this should be changeable by the creator, if he or she wishes - otherwise, best let it default to the slide show name. I can see the ability to eliminate the windows caption completely being used more than changing it to some other name. "KISS" is the best way to go in this, for both novices and advanced users as well.

[think(box)]

I'm beginning to think we can draw blood from a stone with how much life we can breathe into this feature definition

And - a visual artist who wants to be famous may as well start a Las Vegas-style Bambi paintball business in today's world. Talk about being famous over nothing (really worse and less than nothing - they've proven this to be possible). Or maybe they can have a moment of brilliance and do something really good for the world that is widely recognized, like inventing the smiley was for Harvey Ball. He made 45 bucks in currency and billions in lifted spirits. Regretfully he passed away recently at age 79. Click here to read the (happy) story of Harvey Ball's life

-------

Al, I think "two caption boxes with novice defaults made by PTE" scheme is the most simple. Here's how:

PTE can use "Create" .EXE name for both captions by default. Simple.

PTE can update both "Caption of window" and "Caption of taskbar" with new .EXE name (if any) from PTE user, and only when existing captions match old .EXE name. Automatic and just right for newbies. Simple. And advanced users can handle this "novice" feature.

Advanced PTE users who want a blank window caption with .EXE name in taskbar caption can just clear the PTE "Caption of window" text box and insert a <space> to always override that novice default. Advanced users can handle this. Simple. Even more simple: Igor could provide an "Enable" checkbox for this caption.

Advanced PTE users who want a blank taskbar caption can just clear the PTE "Caption of taskbar" text box and insert a <space> to always override that novice default. Advanced users can handle this. Simple. Even more simple: Igor could provide an "Enable" checkbox for this caption.

Advanced PTE users who want a totally different taskbar show name caption vs. "Create" .EXE file name (I do) can just enter it in the "Caption of taskbar" text box. Simple.

Advanced PTE users who want one "not matching .EXE" window caption and another "not matching .EXE" taskbar caption can just enter the two names. Entering a name will override the PTE default. Simple.

If Igor implements the scheme with "Caption of window" only, yet always uses the .EXE name as taskbar caption, then that is complex. For a taskbar caption that must not match the .EXE name we would have to create show, and then Windoze-rename the .EXE to the name we should have been able to use without messing up the show name caption in taskbar. All that to put the caption "Slide Show" in the taskbar. Complex.

And others who want a blank taskbar caption can't do it at all under the one-caption scheme. They would have to name a show with <space> characters. Windows will not allow the first or only character in a file name to be a <space> character. Complex. And not agreeable to all, e.g. Stu, as he said in his post.

We are following KISS and KIF (keep it flexible for varied needs) if we have both caption boxes with novice defaults to match the "Create" .EXE name.

[alrobin]

Bill,

I guess we will have to see how many out there really want a taskbar which doesn't match the ".exe".

Myself, I'll go with whatever Igor decides to implement. But, I still think we should keep things simple.