Opinions wanted...

[Lin Evans]

A few days ago I posted a link to a slideshow demonstrating various snow techniques and have now made some additions in terms of Christmas lighting. Just wondering which way most would prefer the show. Links below to each (about 12 meg).

1. Without Christmas lights

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/sample/letitsnow.zip

2. With additional "gingerbread"

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/sampl...tsnowlights.zip

Would appreciate suggestions, preferences, etc...

Best regards,

Lin

[d67]

A few days ago I posted a link to a slideshow demonstrating various snow techniques and have now made some additions in terms of Christmas lighting. Just wondering which way most would prefer the show. Links below to each (about 12 meg).

1. Without Christmas lights

2. With additional "gingerbread"

Would appreciate suggestions, preferences, etc...

Sorry Lin, but I find both slideshows of very poor interest.

Falling snow... a great step backwards reminding me the "prehistoric" Java scripts

Concerning your presentations, both have very laborious and stutering transitions and sometimes, snow begins to "fall" upwards !!!

I defintely prefer the original Powerpoint presentation passing around on the web... With the PPS I can, at least, easily retrieve some of the interesting photos without the snow trick !

No hard feelings !

Patrick

[Lin Evans]

Hi Patrick,

The only transitions are fades so if there is "stuttering" it is probably the lack of hardware rendering capability. If you mean the snow fall animation is stuttering, it's also your video card which is not up to the task of properly rendering the PNG animations.

As for the aesthetics, that's a subjective evaluation which "may" be colored by your hardware limitations, or not. If snow falls "upwards," it's indeed your hardware - LOL. I think over the last couple years we have been down this path with your system hardware limitations many times. It's unfortunate that you don't have a modern graphics environment because you do not see what others see.

With PTE you have the "choice" of allowing retrieval of images with a decompiler, or not. By default encryption is on, and I didn't change the default so you are correct that a screen copy will not separate the PNG animations from the images, but that's not the purpose of my presentation or question which is whether the Christmas lights are preferred or not by the majority.

I'm not certain what you mean by "falling snow... a great step backward...." It's only one of many possible animations which can be very realistic providing your graphics environment is up to the task of properly rendering the motion. Perhaps in the future when you replace your present system you will be able to at least see what is intended rather than what I'm certain is a real "mess" on your screen. Unfortunately, everyone does not sequence to the least common denominator so perhaps a "caveat" should be issued to not waste the time of those with older systems. I will do this in the future for you.

Thanks for the feedback,

Best regards,

Lin

Sorry Lin, but I find both slideshows of very poor interest.

Falling snow... a great step backwards reminding me the "prehistoric" Java scripts

Concerning your presentations, both have very laborious and stutering transitions and sometimes, snow begins to "fall" upwards !!!

I defintely prefer the original Powerpoint presentation passing around on the web... With the PPS I can, at least, easily retrieve some of the interesting photos without the snow trick !

No hard feelings !

Patrick

[Ken Cox]

Lin

both smooth on mine

could have more lights to show what can be done with the p2e product

Patrick

see your email - i just posted another pps

ken

[deskjet1uk]

A few days ago I posted a link to a slideshow demonstrating various snow techniques and have now made some additions in terms of Christmas lighting. Just wondering which way most would prefer the show. Links below to each (about 12 meg).

1. Without Christmas lights

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/sample/letitsnow.zip

2. With additional "gingerbread"

http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/sampl...tsnowlights.zip

Would appreciate suggestions, preferences, etc...

Best regards,

Lin

Hello Lin,

As you know from my earlier post re falling snow, I loved it. I have since shown it to a member of our camera club and he also loved it, I am positive that when the club meets again in the new year and I show it to all the members they will also appreciate and enjoy the show.

I prefer the second one, I am a bells and whistles kind of guy, especially if the effects are tasteful and not overdone, your "lights efffect" is well done and I applaud the way you apply yourself to this great software.

PTE as we all know will be massive and shows like yours encourage people to not only buy the software but also encourage them to go on and be creative themselves, so please keep up the great work.

There will be more and more new users of this software, your shows will continue to help in a big way the promotion of it worldwide.

Igor has kindly given me permission to promote the software through a site called "picstoexe.co.uk" the site will be up and running late january early february, I will be promoting it through every camera club here in the UK. I will also include a link to your site if thats ok, as I believe as I said earlier, your shows encourage and inspire.

So Lin and all other experienced users of PTE, may I ask on behalf of all users new and old, to continue posting these techniques, all of us can continue to learn and be inspired.

I have a modern computer and I found no problems whatsover.

Ralph

[d67]

The only transitions are fades so if there is "stuttering" it is probably the lack of hardware rendering capability. If you mean the snow fall animation is stuttering, it's also your video card which is not up to the task of properly rendering the PNG animations.

Apart the slideshows made with the very first PTE V5 betas, I can "read", without any problem, the vast majority of the new shows... not yours ! ... find the problem ?

As for the aesthetics, that's a subjective evaluation which "may" be colored by your hardware limitations, or not. If snow falls "upwards," it's indeed your hardware - LOL. I think over the last couple years we have been down this path with your system hardware limitations many times. It's unfortunate that you don't have a modern graphics environment because you do not see what others see.

Sorry Lin but I probably behave as the majority of informatic users: I change components or full PC only if there is a need to (hardware crash for example).

Buying a new system or hardware (even if it is under 100 euros) just to read PTE slideshows is not in my intentions.

I take my photos with a more than 2 years old Sony Alpha 100 (with a basic Sigma tele zoom) and also with a 5 years old Canon DSC-P93, 5 megapixel camera.... do I have to change them urgently just because Sony, Canon, Nikon advertise all day long their new cameras, much powerful and at a very good price ?

Concerning what I see, as said before, I have absolutely no problem despite aenemic hardware apart from time to time, and your slideshow is this exception.

Concerning asesthetics, as you know, PTE V5 is not user friendly and when one make this remark and say there are other softwares, the response is ... PTE is the best software in rendering excellent photo quality.

OK then... but why then obsessionaly lower the quality with fancy animations ????

With PTE you have the "choice" of allowing retrieval of images with a decompiler,

Which one ?

or not. By default encryption is on, and I didn't change the default so you are correct that a screen copy will not separate the PNG animations from the images, but that's not the purpose of my presentation or question which is whether the Christmas lights are preferred or not by the majority.

I'm not certain what you mean by "falling snow... a great step backward...." It's only one of many possible animations which can be very realistic providing your graphics environment is up to the task of properly rendering the motion.

Same response as above considering photo quality versus fancy usage of PTE.

Perhaps in the future when you replace your present system you will be able to at least see what is intended rather than what I'm certain is a real "mess" on your screen. Unfortunately, everyone does not sequence to the least common denominator so perhaps a "caveat" should be issued to not waste the time of those with older systems. I will do this in the future for you.

Not a mess, just stuttering transitions and, once more Lin... just a problem with this particular slideshow, others run fluently.

Patrick

[Lin Evans]

Apart the slideshows made with the very first PTE V5 betas, I can "read", without any problem, the vast majority of the new shows... not yours ! ... find the problem ?

Hi Patrick,

The shows you can see without issue are ones which do not use extensive graphics memory and do not tax older video hardware. I fully understand your frugal nature and your reluctance to change, especially when the change is of little or no perceived value to you. On the other hand, this "problem" you have is not an issue for the majority of PTE users who do have more modern equipment.

I find it humorous that you describe things such as Java Script for falling snow as "prehistoric," yet fail to see your own system under the same magnifying glass?

Sorry Lin but I probably behave as the majority of informatic users: I change components or full PC only if there is a need to (hardware crash for example).

Buying a new system or hardware (even if it is under 100 euros) just to read PTE slideshows is not in my intentions.

And no one wants to change your approach and philosophy. Of course not only PTE shows with intensive graphic manipulations require upgraded hardware, but also gaming and other programs which also allow users to avail themselves of more modern technology.

I take my photos with a more than 2 years old Sony Alpha 100 (with a basic Sigma tele zoom) and also with a 5 years old Canon DSC-P93, 5 megapixel camera.... do I have to change them urgently just because Sony, Canon, Nikon advertise all day long their new cameras, much powerful and at a very good price ?

I think the above can be categorized as essentially irrelevant to the salient issue, but do reflect your general philosophy. If you have no need to change then don't. But then don't complain because others do and you can't see the same effects in the same way because your hardware can't keep up. Yes, you can see the "majority" of shows just fine - then some you can't, so only you can determine whether it's important to upgrade your equipment.

Concerning what I see, as said before, I have absolutely no problem despite aenemic hardware apart from time to time, and your slideshow is this exception.

Understood, and you admit your hardware is "aenemic" - but you have used a request for an aesthetic evaluation of the use of Christmas lighting effects as a platform to launch a general complaint against using graphic intensive animations which your system can't properly handle - and you already know this. Perhaps starting a new thread to discuss your position would be more meaningful??

Concerning asesthetics, as you know, PTE V5 is not user friendly and when one make this remark and say there are other softwares, the response is ... PTE is the best software in rendering excellent photo quality.

OK then... but why then obsessionaly lower the quality with fancy animations ????

The "quality" isn't "lowered" by animations. I get it that you don't like "fancy animations" and that's O.K. Start a thread to assert your position and users can then voice their opinions on what appears to be a "pet peeve" of yours (we've had this conversation in the past, haven't we?). As far as PTE V5 not being "user friendly," your position is not shared by everyone; dare I say not even by the "majority." Spend some of the time and effort you use to complain and "learn" to use the many features and I believe the degree of user friendliness will seem quite different to you.

Which one ?

Under the "View tab" - "Advanced Options" - "Crypt images/music against extracting from EXE file." I'm afraid I can't help with a software choice of decompiler - there are several...

Same response as above considering photo quality versus fancy usage of PTE.

They are not necessarily in opposition, only in "your" subjective opinion.

Not a mess, just stuttering transitions and, once more Lin... just a problem with this particular slideshow, others run fluently.

Sorry, if I understand you correctly you mean "stuttering animations?" The transitions are all simple fades. The stuttering animations such as movement in snow effects are caused on your system because the PNG files combined (there are several) are too large to fit into your video memory. I know of no way to make them small enough to run smoothly on your video card. If they are small enough, such as the animated gifs in the PPT presentation you linked, they do not look realistic even on a powerful video card and PTE doesn't support animated gif files anyway.

The bottom line, Patrick, is that time marches on. Video animation is something many users are interested in and PTE is a tool which serves both those with your view of what a sequence shoud be and those who have different aesthetic tastes.

So if I have understood your response correctly, concerning the original question of lights or no lights your response is essentially "neither; don't do the slideshow with snow effects or lighting effects because I can't see the animations as they were intended because of my hardware, I don't like fancy animations and I can't extract the images because of PTE's security features". Is this about right??

Merry Christmas Patrick..

Best regards,

Lin

Patrick

[Lin Evans]

Hi Ralph,

Thanks for the useful feedback. Thankfully, PTE is a tool which serves many different aesthetic tastes and can be used in many ways. This last show was one, and aesthetically pleasing shows without, as Patrick refers to them, "fancy animations" can easily be done which will play even on older systems with minimal resources too.

Best regards,

Lin

[d67]

Hi Lin

There must be a couple of misunderstandings !

Behaviour of yours slideshows

- There is no problem watching your animations. They proceed evenly and without any stops

- The problem concerns the time beetween 2 slides (transition time): jerky and one time, snow goes a very short time upwards (the transition before the one showing a red house/hangar).

I suppose that this is due to my hardware but as for my recent slideshow where 2 spectators mentionned pixelated skies (they have screen resolution over my slide resolution), you must accept that not everybody is up to date with their PC or video card. In any case powerless PC's or video cards are common here (private or professionnal environnement).

You are up to date ... this doesn't mean everybody is.

Comments about your 2 slideshows

- If your demand of comments concerns only lightings effects.

The difference between both presentations is so thin (1 slide with an illuminated roof and the last slide ... or I missed something) that I don't understand why you posted a new thread !!!

- If it concerns the whole concept, my response is that the animation effect (snow effect) is of very poor interest : falling snow with blue and cloudless skies and bright sun, and so on .... there must be a minimum of realism. The effect brings no particular value to the photos. On the contrary, they depreciate the photos quality.

You are joking about my reference about Java scripts, but what about your blindness concerning the lack of PTE V5 user friendlyness ? The numerous questions arising on forums and even a french photo magazine speaking about PTE, pinpoints without any doubt this problem.

May I just make your point about a very simple question (concerns screen options) for which you and others are unable to reply clearly until now. Not a major problem but if you are not able to reply, what about a newbie lost with options with nebulous finality?

I will not continue this discussion as it is very time consuming for me (translation) all the more that I am sure that your preconception about me will not change. You transpose your proper environnement and the one of the few members who express their opinion here to the whole population and think it is the common rule.

Patrick

[xahu34]

What about user friendliness?

.... (addressing Xaver, regarding PTE intuitive) You're then a poor lonesome cowboy

.... (addressing d67 with respect to user friendliness) your position is not shared by everyone; dare I say not even by the "majority."

Maybe that the poor cowboy isn't that lonesome

Regards,

Xaver

[Lin Evans]

Hi Lin

There must be a couple of misunderstandings !

Behaviour of yours slideshows

- There is no problem watching your animations. They proceed evenly and without any stops

- The problem concerns the time beetween 2 slides (transition time): jerky and one time, snow goes a very short time upwards (the transition before the one showing a red house/hangar).

I suppose that this is due to my hardware but as for my recent slideshow where 2 spectators mentionned pixelated skies (they have screen resolution over my slide resolution), you must accept that not everybody is up to date with their PC or video card. In any case powerless PC's or video cards are common here (private or professionnal environnement).

You are up to date ... this doesn't mean everybody is.

snip...

Hi Patrick,

I appreciate the effort involved in translation and applaud your diligence. I'm afraid I couldn't carry on an intelligent conversation in French so thanks for the time and effort to express your feelings.

I also understand that there are many less powerful computers and that everyone can't play shows with heavy graphics and large PNG files successfully. As I mentioned earlier, I will place a warning in the future so those who have challenged systems don't needlessly spend time trying to view shows which are made for modern systems with updated video hardware.

It indeed is your system which causes the appearance of snow moving upward before the red barn. Just why is a mystery, but indeed it doesn't do this on systems with sufficient resources.

- If it concerns the whole concept, my response is that the animation effect (snow effect) is of very poor interest : falling snow with blue and cloudless skies and bright sun, and so on .... there must be a minimum of realism. The effect brings no particular value to the photos. On the contrary, they depreciate the photos quality.

I must assume you live in a place where it doesn't snow that much or that often. Where I live it is not uncommon to have blue skies, sun and snow simultaneously. The weather here changes very rapidly and snow falling from high altitudes often reaches the ground long after the clouds have blown away and the sun is shining. Just as in your area I'm certain you have been in rain with the sun shining, in our mountains we often have snow and sunshine with blue skies simultaneously. So what must seem very odd to you is not odd to me at all and certainly not unrealistic.

You are joking about my reference about Java scripts, but what about your blindness concerning the lack of PTE V5 user friendlyness ? The numerous questions arising on forums and even a french photo magazine speaking about PTE, pinpoints without any doubt this problem.

May I just make your point about a very simple question (concerns screen options) for which you and others are unable to reply clearly until now. Not a major problem but if you are not able to reply, what about a newbie lost with options with nebulous finality?

"Blindness?" Magazine editors put their pants on just like the rest of us Patrick. They have opinions and their opinions are not always correct nor or they always shared by the majority.

Let me begin by saying that this thread is not the place to discuss "user friendliness" of the software. It's an entirely different subject than my question and deserves a thread dedicated to this very different issue than "lights or no lights". But since you ask again, you are discussing a "beta" version and not a released version of the product. The purpose of beta testing is to reveal bugs, weakness and confusing issues and resolve them. Unlike most companies, Wnsoft allows users to beta test their software and participate in the development cycle. I believe this is something very useful to producing what most of us believe is the finest product of its type available.

A "newbie" should probably read the documentation, user guides, forum notes, etc., and spend some time with basic features before venturing into the more complex and esoteric functions. Complex functions can not always be made "easy" to understand, especially with users of tremendously different backgrounds and educational differences. To someone with an engineering and math/physics background certain issues which are elementary may be extremely confusing to another who has a degree or background in law, social science or medicine. Conversely, it's sometimes difficult for someone with a scientific background to understand aesthetics and we are all creatures of our own culture and developmental environments.

The task of a software developer and for technical writers is to attempt to bridge these differences and create a product which can be of use to all these disparate types of potential users. To this end I believe Wnsoft has succeeded wonderfully. A novice user can create a beautiful slideshow in only minutes complete with wonderful transitions and background music. An experience user can find novel and interesting new ways to avail themselves of the myriad possibilities. PTE is a "very" powerful tool. With great power comes great complexity. Is Photoshop "user friendly?" I believe it is, but after using it since it was "invented" I still find I have a lot to learn about it. Are there "easier" products to use to do photo manipulations? Of course there are. Are they user friendly too? Yes, many are.

So because you or I may be confused about a beta version's feature doesn't necessitate branding a product as "user unfriendly" when in fact it may well be that we simply do not as yet understand all the ramifications.

The cockpit of a Boeing 707 may seem "user unfriendly" to a pilot who has only experience with a Piper Cub, but it's anything but "user unfriendly" to an experienced airline pilot. Because a feature exists, or the potential to accomplish some feat with this aircraft exists but you or I can't figure out how to use it doesn't make it "user unfriendly". You don't need to be able to use all the intrinsic navigation equipment, electronic equipment and so on to take off, fly this aircraft from point A to point B and land it. If you understand the basics of flight you only need to know the stall speed, where to find the throttle, flaps, how to read the fuel gage, turn and bank indicator, air speed indicator etc. This is analogous to PTE. There is something for everyone and as the user becomes more experienced the "user friendliness" increases dramatically. Practice makes perfect.

Best regards,

Lin

[Lin Evans]

Hi Tom,

Great idea!

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

I don't live where it snows much in the winter (right on the coast of N. California), so I never get tired looking at snow. It plays fine on both of my PCs and netbook.

The only thing that might be interesting is the ending of the slideshow it zooms out so the viewer discovers all of the scenery is actually inside a snow globe, then add the lights.

Tom

[d67]

Hi Patrick,

I appreciate the effort involved in translation and applaud your diligence

..........

Let me begin by saying that this thread is not the place to discuss "user friendliness" of the software.

...........

The cockpit of a Boeing 707 may seem "user unfriendly" to a pilot who has only experience with a Piper Cub

........

Practice makes perfect.

Ite missa est (it's over, the fat lady has sung) ... in PTE we trust !

Nothing to add ... useless !

Good night (midnight in 30 min)

Patrick

[LumenLux]

Lin, your snow effects are the best I have seen anywhere, anytime. I think you hit it on the head however, that not everyone that has seen "snow" has seen all the varieties that some of us have experienced. I like you, live where the snow mode and variety changes faster than I can grab my camera or move from front window to rear window where the snow may be different within moments! I will even say that our "greatest snow on earth" does include snow which will indeed "fall up" for many beautiful ballets before hitting the ground.

Your extensive work with different methods of animating snow is totally commendable. I could point out some of the slides where I think the snow is the "best" or the most realistic, but that depends either on how it matches my own experience of snow or how esthetically it fits the photograph. As for the Powerpoint presentation that is perhaps the one referenced by Patrick - Having watched it (and several other pps's recently), it is hard for me to not "laugh" if I am looking for "realism." That does not criticize the producer of the pps, but only is the result of knowing how much more effective an animation can be done with PTE when you or others take the interest, time, and skill to the project. Igor has built the potential, and some choose to make outstanding use of it. Bravo.

I enjoy best your new rendition with the lighting. Again, your ability to make the lighting seem very natural as well as artistic, is effective - thus my preference.

[xahu34]

Lin,

In general, I am not very fond of animations of still images which try to imitate movements, such as your hummingbirds or butterflies, which (in my eyes) have an archaic appearance. Some day, PTE will allow to insert videos, and for showing movement, in most cases videos will be the better choice.

What I actually like are some of the waterfall simulations. Recently, a friend of mine used your technique to animate an image of the Rhine Falls at Schaffhausen, which looks very good.

The snow fall simulation looks very realistic, thanks to the use of several layers with snowflakes of different size, speed, and direction. I like the effect, but I would prefer to see it once or twice for a moment, but not during the whole show.

Just a remark on the everlasting discussion on user friendliness. I think that this discussion is useless. The protagonists typically are same in all cases. Everyone sticks to his point of view, and his way of expressing arguments (clinically, or polemically - chacun à son goût).

Regards,

Xaver

[Lin Evans]

snip

The snow fall simulation looks very realistic, thanks to the use of several layers with snowflakes of different size, speed, and direction. I like the effect, but I would prefer to see it once or twice for a moment, but not during the whole show.

Hi Xaver,

I quite agree - but the purpose of this particular example was to show some of the different types of snow effects - thus the use of an effect on each slides. (see here: http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....showtopic=9180)

Just a remark on the everlasting discussion on user friendliness. I think that this discussion is useless. The protagonists typically are same in all cases. Everyone sticks to his point of view, and his way of expressing arguments (clinically, or polemically - chacun à son goût).

Yes, "user friendliness" just as "intuitive" are very subjective and what may seem non-intuitive and non-friendly to one may be perfectly logical and appropriate for another. For this reason we will probably never have consensus on this issue.

Best regards,

Lin

Regards,

Xaver

[Lin Evans]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the kind words and feedback. Threads like this help with not only the original question (lights or no lights) but also with cross-cultural understanding. We are all products of our environment and perhaps in some small way this helps to broaden our horizons and open our eyes to differences in perceptions based on our individual experiences.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin, your snow effects are ....... snip

I enjoy best your new rendition with the lighting. Again, your ability to make the lighting seem very natural as well as artistic, is effective - thus my preference.

[Drareg]

Hi Lin,

I've watched your presentation, boy winter looks good there, in Holland now snow unfortunatly.

I wondered how did you do the snow falling thoughout the show, I really want to learn that.

Very nice show also from a photography point of view.

Gerard

[Lin Evans]

Hi Gerard,

Snow animation is easiest for me to do by creating PNG files which have random white flakes or blurred circles representing snow. These should be varied in size so that the ones closest to the "camera" view are larger and those on the back layer are smaller. I usually use about three layers. Sometimes it's the same PNG file which is either zoomed to make it larger or played at original size to make it smaller. These PNG files are loaded as PNG Objects in the Objects and animations layer and usually are animated by emulating snow fall in terms of direction and varying speed. Perhaps the easiest way for you to learn this is to go to the PanosFX site, register, then download the free PanosFX Snowglobe Photoshop/Elements action. The download my free template from the same site and create a Snowglobe. Study the PNG files I give you with the template and you can then experiment by using them with other images. After a while you will probably want to experiment in Photoshop and create your own, but this will get you started. Here's a link to the PanosFX site:

http://www.panosfx.com/

Once you have registered (it's free) then click on the link below:

http://www.panosfx.com/index.php?option=co...8&Itemid=56

You won't be able to reach the link above until you are registered. On the above link you can download my PTE "template" and instructions which will get you started.

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

I've watched your presentation, boy winter looks good there, in Holland now snow unfortunatly.

I wondered how did you do the snow falling thoughout the show, I really want to learn that.

Very nice show also from a photography point of view.

Gerard

[Drareg]

Thanks Lin,

I have registered and downloaded the file, now I have to study it.

Gerard