Burning an HD DVD

[jevans]

Using the latest version of PTE you can create a high definition .mp4 file and play this on the computer using various players. I have a Pioneer hard disk DVD recorder/player that is supposed to be HD compatible, i.e. 1080p and a TV which is also 1080p.

Is it possible to burn the .mp4 file to a high definition DVD disk and what equipment do you need to do this?, e.g. an HD I thought that manufacture of HD disks was coming to an end. Do the DVD disks need to be special HD versions?

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jeff,

Apparently you "can" record HD to standard DVD media with the right software. Here's a "dated" but relevant link to digest. Perhaps this can help answer your question.

http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArt...ArticleID=12157

From the article, it seem like Pinnacle Studio would be the way to go. However, before buying it, I would write or call them and find out whether it can use MP4 input format rather than MPEG II which the article discusses. Otherwise you would need to convert from MP4 to MPEG II or output an AVI at HD resolution and convert to MPEG II.

Later...

I researched this a bit at the Pinnacle site and found this:

Lin

[jevans]

Hi Lin,

Thanks for your reply. I find the whole topic of high definition very confusing. I bought a flat screen TV about 2 years ago which was mared "HD Ready". Later on I realized that it was not full HD, i.e. 1080p. I now have a new set which is full 1080p and an associated Pioneer hard disk DVD recoder and player which is also supposed to be 1080p. However there are no HDMI inputs in the recorder only a single HDMI output to the TV. Thus the only way you can get HD is if you put an HD DVD disk in the recorder/player. If I make an mp4 file from PTE and then burn it to a standard DVD disk, will it be high definition? I would be surprised if the answer was "yes".

best regards

Jeff

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jeff,

It will be HD "if" you use Pinnacle's software. Standard DVD resolution is only PAL or NTSC and using PTE to burn a DVD disc will only give you standard DVD resolution. To get HD you need special software. To my knowledge Pinnacle may be the only one which currently burns HD to standard media. It's possible that there are others which can do this that I'm not aware of, but in either case you must have a player capable of reading and playing back the HD format which is laid down by the burning software. In the case of Pinnacle 12, the software can read the 1080p MP4 output and then render it into the proper format to be burned by the Pinnacle burn engine on a standard DVD and played back via a compatible player (yours is ostensibly capable) at high definition. Apparently the Pinnacle software can output and burn "both" HD and BluRay.

The standard DVD media is formatted and "recognized" as HD (in your case) or BluRay (providing someone has a BluRay player). The difference is that the standard DVD can only hold about 30 minutes or less of HD content because of the 4.7 gig (single sided) or 9.4 gig (dual layer) media. Obviously, this is quite enough for "most" PTE slideshows to be played at high definition. So your player "should" be able to read the Pinnacle burned disc and play the disc through your single just as if it were an HD disc burned with your Pioneer HD writer.

Below is a transcript of my conversation with the Pinnacle representative:

=============================================================================

Hi, my name is Norman Aquilato. How may I help you? [02:11:50 PM]

Lin Evans: Hi Norman, [02:11:59 PM]

Lin Evans: My Name is Lin Evans - I need to know if I can import a HD MP4 file at 1080p resolution and burn it to standard DVD media in HD using a standard DVD burner? [02:12:52 PM]

Norman Aquilato: Mp4 from where? [02:13:14 PM]

Lin Evans: The mp4 is output from PicturesToExe software [02:13:36 PM]

Norman Aquilato: Not pure music? [02:13:52 PM]

Lin Evans: Video and music [02:14:03 PM]

Norman Aquilato: Okay. [02:14:29 PM]

Lin Evans: If I understand you, the answer is yes? [02:14:50 PM]

Norman Aquilato: It depends on your computer specs if it can handle that format. [02:15:45 PM]

Lin Evans: I can create the MP4 and play it on my computer, I can send it to Vimeo for conversion to Flash or to Youtube for conversion. What specs do I need? [02:16:49 PM]

Norman Aquilato: Okay you can. [02:17:30 PM]

Lin Evans: I have several DVD burners - HP, Plextor, Sony, etc., and Pinnacle 12 will then let me take my High Definition MP4's in 1080P and burn them to standard DVD regular single sided density of course at greatly reduced storage capacity, then I can play them back using an HD player or BluRay player to a high definition television (1080p) at 1080p resolution? [02:20:09 PM]

Norman Aquilato: Yes. [02:21:06 PM]

Lin Evans: Thank you very much Norman, have a great holiday week end! [02:21:26 PM]

Norman Aquilato: You're welcome. Again, my name is Norman Aquilato.Thank you for giving us an opportunity to serve you through Live Chat Support. For your records, a transcript of this chat session will be e-mailed to you. Feel free to contact us if you require further assistance. By the way there will be an out going survey that will be sent to you on how I have helped. Thank you for choosing Pinnacle and have a great day!

Please answer the survey. Happy new year! [02:22:04 PM]

Lin Evans: I will do so. Thanks Norman! [02:22:39 PM]

'Lin Evans' disconnected ('Concluded by End-user'). [02:22:44 PM]

==============================================================================

Best regards,

Lin

[potwnc]

Jeff,

I cover this to some extent in the HD appendix of the unofficial guide. I believe that what you need is to burn an "AVC HD DVD" - which is a standard DVD (+R, -R, +RW or -RW), single- or dual-layer, burned with a file structure that most modern Blu-ray players can read and playback in the original resolution it was burned at (e.g., 1080p). I'm not sure about other devices such as yours but the manual should say whether it does.

Lin is correct - Pinnacle Studio Plus and Pinnacle Studio Ultimate version 11 and later can burn these. So can other video editing/rendering/burning software such as Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum. Unfortunately the ability to import MP4 format is not as simple as "it can or it can't" - if you search for posts with my discussion with Igor in PTE 5.6 betas threads you'll see that Igor changed the format of the output MP4 files in a later beta version (maybe around beta number 9 and I think it had to do with including I-franes or B-frames) and Sony Vegas Pro 8 could no longer import the MP4 file. I don't know if Pinnacle Studio will have the same problem with the latest beta (and with what will presumably be the final version).

Ray

[davegee]

Jeff,

It would help to know which Pioneer unit you have?

I just looked at the Pioneer range and the top of line unit features 1080 SCALING which is not the same thing. I think this means that your PAL recordings are scaled up to 1080 size.

There was no mention at all of BluRay - just the "normal" DVD playing.

It this stage in the game I believe the only viable way is to play your 1920x1080 EXE files from a suitably (HDMI) equipped laptop to your TV.

I have been doing this for the last 9 months or so and the quality exceeds all other methods.

DaveG

[jevans]

Hi Dave,

My Pioneer unit is a DVR-550HX-S and you are right, it only provides 1080p scaling although it was quite difficult to find this information. Thus going to all the bother of converting mp4 files seems a waste of time at the moment.

Just to widen the topic a little bit. Most of my PTE shows are projected. But I occasionally convert a show to a DVD format to show directly on a TV (mainly shows for the family). I have been using the PTE DVD facility and it produces really good results. However looking at the facilities in PTE 5.6, I thought I would try some of the other options. I suppose I can see the point of the option to produce "HD video for PCs and Macs" on the basis that you cannot run an exe file on a Mac and, by making an mp4 file, you can play the show using other players than just using the exe file. But why would I want to create an HD mp4 file to play on a PC if I can just run the exe file. Do I get a better quality image. I cannot tell the difference on my monitor, and if I want to show a PTE show on a TV, I will just burn a DVD copy.

The whole topic of high definition seem to be a bit of a con in some ways. I know I can see HD content via my TV if I have access to cable, Sky or Freesat TV and the quality is definitely better. But I cannot record it despite being persuaded to purchase a "1080p ready" DVD hard disk recorder.

Regards

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jeff,

As good as MP4 is, it can't compete with a good executable especially if there are fast pans or rotates. Displaying your images by directly connecting to the TV is almost always superior to burning a DVD or HD DVD with the disadvantage being that you need both a compatible computer with proper video output and the high definition screen. So for your own use, direct display will be definitely superior. Of course the problem becomes how to share your shows with others and that's the advantage of being able to create a DVD or HD/BluRay DVD. Since high definition players are still rather new, standard DVD seems to be of more importance right now, but in a year or so HD will become much more commonplace and so it might be worthwhile to get software such as Pinnacle Studio 12 Ultimate.

I just spoke with a Pinnacle representative (transcript in above post) and he assures me that we can indeed take our MP4 output from PicturesToExe and burn it in HD or BluRay format at 1080p resolution to a standard DVD media blank which will then play back at 1080p on an HD or BluRay player.

BluRay players are coming down greatly in price so this is a distinct possibility for the future I think.....

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

Lin,

Didn't your recent tests tend to prove that, whilst it is possible to make HD Video in PTE, the PZR effects take their toll on the available computing power to produce stuttering etc?

In order to make a 1920x1080 HD Video you need to be able to use 1920x1080 images and if you cannot then use PZR effects as required then what is the point?

I've no doubt that in future when we all have machines which are 10 - 20 times as powerful then it will be possible, but Sony etc will by that time have invented SUPER ULTRA HD requiring even more computing power!

DaveG

[Lin Evans]

Hi David,

No, that's not correct. It's not a computing power issue at all. Some of the PZR effects being not smooth have nothing to do with computing power. Actually, even a marginal computer can make smooth videos because there is no "time" penalty in the construction of the video code, it takes "longer" on a less powerful computer, but the end results are identical assuming the computer has the ability to output 1080p resolution.

The computer I use can easily output nine megapixel image complete with PZR and animations in real time. When videos are being created the computer is not working in real time but takes as long as necessary to create each image and transition for the eventual video display.

The lack of smoothness in the videos created has much more to do with the "frame speed". PZR's in real time are rendered at up to and above 60 frames per second. The 1080p images are generally rendered at a much slower frame rate.

Both the video card I use and the system are more than capable of rendering and displaying 1080P flawlessly provided it's "possible" to achieve the same quality in the rotates and pans. Unfortunately, it's not.

The temporary solution then is not to put a stress on the video limitations. This means just don't do extreme animations which challenge the system. In fact, the vast majority of those who might want the quality of 1080p in video do not care about sailing saucer shaped pictures around the screen or fancy animations; they just want to output good smooth transitions and high quality images with minimal animations. For that, the current output is fantastic.

Best regards,

Lin

[Guest Auser]

For the PC, the latest Movie Factory (Plug-in required) can also record HD/Blu-Ray to regular DVD's. For the Mac, Toast will do this to. I use Toast on my Mac to records PTE shows in the Blu-Ray format and my PS3 to play them back. The quality is much nicer than a standard DVD show.

Auser

[davegee]

Lin,

Whether it be computing power or frame rate the facts appear to be that HD Video at 1920x1080 USING ALL OF THE AVAILABLE FEATURES OF PTE WITHOUT RESTRICTION is just not possible for everyone at this time?

PTE EXE files provide that capability and when routed properly from computer to TV provide the ultimate viewing experience at this time.

That was the point I was trying to make to Jeff.

DaveG

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dave,

Actually, it's the same whether one considers the executable file or the HD 1080p video. If the user's system is compromised by lack of hardware versatility whether it be video RAM, video GPU or system RAM or CPU processor power there may be issues with both video creation/playback and executable playback.

Yes, the executable file is preferred when it's possible to use it, absolutely, but the video file is more versatile and allows cross-platform compatibility as well as the ability to port to HDVD/DVD/BluRay and other formats so it's really an issue of when we can use executable and when video is sufficient or preferred.

At the present state of software easily available to the public at reasonable prices, HD Video can't provide the same quality as executable code. Obviously there are systems like Red One which take high resolution videos at frame rates which can easily support fast animations, but systems to play these back are not readily available to consumers. So even if PTE were to be able to create ultra high resolution video (at 12 megapixel, etc.) it would not be available for playback to the general public.

I think your point is well taken that the executable mode is superior right now to the HD Video mode, but it's much less "versatile" so the issue, if I understand Jeff correctly, is that he would like to be able to both create and play back HD video on his home system and also be able to distribute HD video to his friends, etc. My point is that this is possible using alternative software and standard DVD's. I assume that his DVD player will support the creation of standard DVD's so it would be amenable to using Pinnacle Studio 12 or other software which can format standard DVD's as either BluRay or HD and burn the PTE HD output to this standard media. He then would need to buy either a BluRay (preferred) or HD player to play the shows burned on his standard DVD Pioneer with his 1080p television.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

Whether it be computing power or frame rate the facts appear to be that HD Video at 1920x1080 USING ALL OF THE AVAILABLE FEATURES OF PTE WITHOUT RESTRICTION is just not possible for everyone at this time?

PTE EXE files provide that capability and when routed properly from computer to TV provide the ultimate viewing experience at this time.

That was the point I was trying to make to Jeff.

DaveG

[davegee]

Lin,

Please elaborate on the very last sentence?

I don't quite understand what you said there.

DaveG

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dave,

He can use his Pioneer burner/player to burn 1040P MP4's to standard DVD media via the Pinnacle authoring software. This software formats standard DVD media as if it were HD media or BluRay media (your choice via the Pinnacle software) then burns the Pinnacle converted MP4 to this HD or BluRay formatted low density media.

Then to play these HD burned standard DVD's he needs a player capable of "reading" the HD or BluRay media. Even though it is burned via his Pioneer, the Pioneer can't read and "interpret" the BluRay or HD format to play it back on his 1080p television. A relatively inexpensive HD player "can" read the standard DVD media formatted as if it were an HD blank, the difference being capacity. I suggested BluRay because HD is essentially functionally obsolete.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin,

Please elaborate on the very last sentence?

I don't quite understand what you said there.

DaveG

[davegee]

Lin,

I suspect that you have misunderstood.

Jeff's Pioneer unit is a HDD (Hard Disc Drive)/DVD Recorder which will not "talk" to his computer.

These units are used to record TV programmes and replay or dub (copy) to DVDs. They are "peculiar" in that, for instance, a similar Sony unit will not dub (copy) Panasonic made DVDs and vice versa. Both will play the others DVDs but neither will copy the others DVDs to the HDD for editing or storage. Also, neither will copy computer made DVDs to the HDD. If you want to copy material from another makers DVD or a computer generated DVD you have to enter the analogue domain.

There is no input for computer.

Only Jeff can tell us if the same thing applies to the Pioneer.

The Western Digital and Iomega Media Players which have been spoken about in other threads at this forum would possibly be an alternative for Jeff. However, I have not seen the quality of either product for myself.

DaveG

[Lin Evans]

Hi David,

Here's what information I could find about this unit:

=================

Remote Control

The 550HX has an integrated digital (DVB-T) tuner and a 160GB hard disk drive, which will give you up to 455 hours of recording time. You can play, record and store almost every kind of media format, including DVD-R (Dual Layer) and DVD+R (Double Layer), DVD+RW and DVD-RAM.

If you frequently download film content from the web, it also meets the DivX Home Theater certification standard to provide high quality playback of compressed video. You can also copy and edit footage from your digital camcorder via the DV-In.

The 550HX enables a scaling option up to 1080p via HDMI. So you're guaranteed the highest viewing resolution, regardless of the source.

Time can also be come less of a challenge. If you miss parts of a program or are interrupted during viewing - the system allows Time Shifting. Pause live TV, or use Chase Play - which allows you to playback the program you're recording - while you're recording it.

If you use pay TV, you can plug your smart card directly into the CI slot; the benefit is that you no longer require an additional decoder box.

One-touch recording makes it easy to record - but the system also has an Electronic Program Guide, which allows you to browse through the multitude of TV channels on screen - making it even easier for timer setting and recording the specific program you're looking for.

And you can control it all via a straightforward remote control, which has an easy-to-understand layout, so you have quick access to the functions you need.

========================================

Only Jeff can tell us whether this unit will burn DVD's from computer output....... note the part in italics above. Either way, I'm sure Jeff has a DVD burner for his computer because he makes DVD's to play on his TV. He will still need an HD or BluRay player in order to play standard DVD media formatted in HD or BluRay and burned via whichever unit he has which is suitable.

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

Things are moving rapidly.

Here's a link to a current model in the Pioneer range:

http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products/42/12...HX-K/specs.html

It connects to a USB device and enables you to copy to the hard disc. MPEG4 (or DivX) is supported.

DaveG

Further info:

If anyone is interested the Makers Manual is available here:

http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeserv...lnr=DVR-560HX-K

It seems to be capable of playing DivX files at up to 1920x1080 when connected via HDMI to a HD TV.

DivX files can be loaded to the HDD from any USB device.

[jevans]

Dave/Lin,

Thanks for your contributions which have certainly helped me to get my head around this topic.

Dave I had already answered your email before reading your latest post.

Lin, Dave is correct. My Pioneer will only play recordings from the internal hard disk and also play a DVD disk inserted into the disk tray. You can copy files from the hard drive onto a DVD in the tray but there is no connection available for a computer. Thus I would need to burn a DVD on my computer in the DVD drive and then try to play this in the Pioneer. Dave has suggested that this might work and, when I have time, I will give it a try and post the result here.

Dave : Are DviX files the same as MP4 files? In other words, if you produce a mp4 file from PTE, will that be recognized as a DviX compatible file?

Regards

Jeff

[Lin Evans]

Hi Jeff,

It's a shame that your Pioneer didn't provide an input other than DV-in. I hadn't checked the specs on your particular unit when I responded. As Dave pointed out, the newer Pioneer unit (DVR-560HX-K) does have an USB connect and would allow you to use it as the burning device (as far as I can determine). I don't believe there are any available DV-in to USB adapters though it "should" be possible to make one since there are I-EEE1394 (firewire) to USB adapters available and the DV-in is a firewire device.

So the bottom line is that indeed you would have to use your in-computer burner to burn a hi-def MP4 to a standard DVD blank formatted to BluRay or HD via Pinnacle or other suitable software. However, you still would not be able to play it on your Pioneer since it really isn't a HD or BluRay player. I've been looking at Blu-Ray players and so far the Sony seems to have the best price/feature set. It's available here in the states for around $200-$250 USD. I'm sure in a few months the prices will probably be down to around $150 or so and make it worth while.

Best regards,

Lin

[Ken Cox]

Jeff

see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DivX_Media_Fo...ormat_.28DMF.29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xvid

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mp4

it gets complicated -- it has been a war between the original developer and and the big boys - -sony, hollywood etc

some dvd players will play divx files as is -- they do not have to be be encoded to the dvd format and IMHO quality is great -- a full length movie in divx format is +- 700 to 1000 mb when the same file goes thru the dvd encoding process it becomes +- 4.3 gb

ken

[sanewcomb]

I've been looking at Blu-Ray players and so far the Sony seems to have the best price/feature set. It's available here in the states for around $200-$250 USD. I'm sure in a few months the prices will probably be down to around $150 or so and make it worth while.

Lin,

Make sure the Blu-Ray player you plan to buy actually plays DVD burned discs in the high definition format you want to use. Many of them do not play user burned DVD discs, or at least that was the case a little while ago. The HD format was more open to user created files as well as the internet. Blu-Ray doesn't play as nice. We have a Samsung BDP-1000 player and it will not play high definition files/movies on DVD discs, even with firmware updates. Hopefully the newer players are more flexible, but I think it has something to do with anti-piracy efforts by the manufacturers and has nothing to do with technology issues. The best results I came across when I looked into it earlier was with PS3 game consoles.

Cheers,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[Lin Evans]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the warning! Though I have been looking at them, I don't plan to buy one any time soon because I don't have a big screen 1080p television (not even digital yet) and right now can't even pay my mortgage payments, so not likely for the near future. We just took advantage of the "coupons" and picked up a couple Zenith analog/digital converters and installed them.

For our non-US forum members, the US is about to go all digital on broadcast TV next month which leaves millions of people who have analog televisions and who don't have cable service hanging in the wind unless they use converter boxes to convert to digital tuners. The government has provided each household that need them two coupons each worth $40 toward the purchase of the analog/converter box. A good converter like the Zenith costs about $60 so this means it costs about $20 to continue to receive broadcast television on each older TV.

Anyway, I will hopefully find someone who has a current Sony BluRay player to test user burned BluRay discs before I buy one, but by that time probably many of the forum members will already have tried it.

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

Lin,

Regarding the impending changeover to Digital it sounds as though you will be going through the same process as we went through some years ago.

Initially, although we had "digital" TV it was (and still is) in PAL - 768x576 - format. The PAL picture is then upscaled to whatever resolution the TV is.

HD TV arrived fairly recently and more money and a different reciever is required. My understanding is that even though it is being promotoed as HD and that a 1080p compatible TV is required the incoming signal is only 720p. I don't have an HD contract so I don't have first hand experience.

If you know in any more detail what you will be getting (when it happens) it would be interesting to to know:

First - What they are promising

Second - What they deliver

Going back to Jeff's original post - the ULTIMATE quality is achieved by playing a PTE EXE file via a HDMI connection to an LCD TV where the resolution of the PTE EXE equals the resolution of the TV. ANYTHING else is second best.

DaveG

[Ken Cox]

DAVE

see

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=HD...earch&meta=

I believe the US are swinging over in this Feb -- Canada next year

US tv stations are advertising it daily - to test whether you need the box or not

I think they say "if you have cable tv, your ordinary tv set will get a signal-- I live close to the border and watch the US stations regularly -- I was using a tv tower/antenna which is analog so i had to subscribe to cable in order to get the US stations for my standard CRT tv set -- if i ever go to a hd tv set i will have to pay a premium to cable company and rent a hd box from them

ken