saving and saving again PTE project

[Picsel]

It seems that neither PTE v5.5 neither PTE v5.6beta20 recognises if there were real modifications or not in my current project. Each time I want to close the project or to create a Video, PTE requires to save again even if there is no modification in the project since the last saving or even if I just saved the project before! That is not very important but a bit worrying and confusing. I must recognize it is better to save twice rather than to miss something!!

Daniel.

[Ken Cox]

IT IS TIME/DATE STAMPING THE PTE I BELIEVE

KEN

[fh1805]

Daniel,

I've never witnessed the behaviour that you report. I've just done a simple test with PTE v5.52. I launched PTE v5.52. It automatically opened the project file that I was last working on. I made no changes and simply closed down the PTE window using the "X" button at the extreme top-right of the window. I was not prompted to save anything.

Does it not work like this for you?

regards,

Peter

[Ken Cox]

Peter

myself and Ralph have both experienced this behaviour prior to the current set of betas

ken

[Picsel]

IT IS TIME/DATE STAMPING THE PTE I BELIEVE

KEN

Hi Ken,

perhaps it is the easiest way for developpers to take into account time/date but when you use other softwares you have to save your work only if you made modifications, they are not requiring to save for nothing. That was just for PTE improvement..!

Daniel.

[nobeefstu]

There are many senarios when working on pte files that can provoke the Save File prompt.

Even something as simple when opening Project Options to just look at your settings then clicking OK or Canel button to close Projct Options.

If you click Canel button ... you wont be prompted with Save File even when you made setting changes. Clicking Cancel is like clicking ignore.

If you click OK button ... you will be prompted with Save File even when you did not make setting changes. Clicking OK is like clicking apply. Pte will want to apply the settings its reads in Project Options ... it does not compare the settings for changes.

I wont go into other senarios ... but Pte wants to document more than setting changes.

[Igor]

I plan rework this place in the program (export to MP4 video, Youtube, etc), and PicturesToExe will not ask save project at all. Because it will automatically create temporal copy of project for video export.

[JPD]

I had recently a big problem, PTE say "Out of memory" and propose to save the project. I click on "Yes" and my PTE file was destroy and then PTE unable to save the current project (one day of work lost )

So is it possible to not destroy the file before saving it but recall it in .bak.

[fh1805]

Jean-Pierre,

If you turn on "Auto-save" via View...Advanced Options...Auto-save project then PTE will save at the time interval that you specify. Beware, though, the saved file simply over-writes the existing project file. It is no different than if you were to do File...Save every few minutes. Both Lin Evans and I have, in the past, experienced this "Out of memory" followed by total loss of the PTE project file.

It was as a result of our experiences that Igor introduced the "auto-save" option.

regards,

Peter

[JPD]

Jean-Pierre,

If you turn on "Auto-save" via View...Advanced Options...Auto-save project then PTE will save at the time interval that you specify. Beware, though, the saved file simply over-writes the existing project file. It is no different than if you were to do File...Save every few minutes. Both Lin Evans and I have, in the past, experienced this "Out of memory" followed by total loss of the PTE project file.

It was as a result of our experiences that Igor introduced the "auto-save" option.

regards,

Peter

OK, I agree with you, Peter, but there will still the problem, if I lose a day of work it's not because I had not save my work, it's because I hadn't rename my file since a day, and the file which was destroyed had been save 10 mintes before PTE delete it when I click on "Yes" to save when "Out of memory" is present.

[xahu34]

Jean-Pierre, Peter,

I think that the Auto-save function is better than having nothing, but I myself do not use it. I do not like PTE to overwrite my files automatically. It would be better to have a recovery function which is a bit more sophisticated. As an example: PTE could auto-save the current project any 5 or 10 minutes, and keep the last (say) 12 versions in a system folder. These versions could be shown (to be opened after program restart) in a particular recovery menu.

Best regards,

Xaver

[Ken Cox]

I think windows 98 used to have 5 copies of the settings and whenever you restarted/reboot it started on the oldest and when you shut down that one was replaced and a new one was put on the bottom of list - in xp this was replaced by restore points - maybe something like this is what is needed?

ken

[fh1805]

The way that I see auto-save working in an enhanced form is as follows:

- the user interface to turn it on or off remains as now

- when it is turned on, PTE saves the .pte file at the required time intervals but adds the &SYSDATE and &SYSTIME variables to the file name (thus making each file uniquely named)

- the files are saved into a PTE System folder

- at then end of the session, when the user closes down PTE, the processing goes as follows:

- the "do you want to save?" dialogue box is presented with the options "Yes", "No" and "Cancel"

- clicking "Cancel" takes you back into PTE (no saving is done at this point)

- clicking "Yes" causes the .pte file to be saved over the top of the existing .pte file (exactly as at present) - and all auto-saved files are deleted from the PTE System folder

- clicking "No" causes a new dialogue box to open asking: "Do you want to keep the interim saved files from this session?" and offers two buttons; "Yes" and "No"

- if "No" is clicked, the PTE System folder contents are deleted, the .pte file is not saved (The project is available only as it was at the start of the session)

- if "Yes" is clicked, the PTE System folder contents are retained.

On next start-up of PTE, PTE will test to see if the PTE System folder contains any files

- if it doesn't then the last-used project file is opened in its last saved state (In other words the behaviour is as it is now)

- if the PTE System folder contains files, a dialogue box is opened offering the files to the user for one to be selected as the start point (this allows recovery from a point part way through the previous session)

There will, undoubtedly, be some additional points of detail that will need to be handled but that should give a very useful and usable auto-save and recovery capability.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

The way that I see auto-save working in an enhanced form is as follows:

regards,

Peter

Hi Peter

The "NO" suggestion adds confusion in my mind, If I say NO at present I know the show reverts to how it was when I opened it

Regards Eric

[xahu34]

Peter,

I would like to keep it simple: Leave PTE as it is, just add a circular buffer (maybe of configurable size and timing options) for auto-saved project files. This would be a feature which normally would not be noticed by the user. Only in cases of accidents he/she could make use of it.

Best regards,

Xaver

[fh1805]

Eric,

So you would just say "NO" and "NO" again.

You've obviously never encountered the "Out of memory" condition in a heavy edit session. When it happens, all you want to do is tell PTE - shutdown as quick as you can, don't overwrite the existing file. And then, ideally, you want to be let back in so you can resume at whatever point PTE took the last backup. So you want PTE to hang on to the interim backups.

When this problem occurs, the only alternative (and the most likely scenario) is that you lose the entire project file. And when it happens on day one of the project build (as it did for me) - there isn't any other backup to turn to. The only option is to redo the entire day's work all over again.

And if you don't understand what went wrong, and simply repeat the same edit session, it happens again on day two - and you still haven't got a backup.

On day three you start saving every few minutes - just in case.

An improved "auto-save" feature would be a boon - on those rare occasions when something goes dramatically wrong. But the present system where it simply over-writes the project file each time, means that you cannot abandon the entire session if you feel that things are not going as you wanted them to. At least, you cannot abandon unless you started by saving as a new name at the start of the session.

Which leads me to think that what I would like in PTE is not "auto-save", actually, but some form of automatic version control that includes mid-session versions as well as start-/end-session versions.

regards,

Peter

[xahu34]

... Which leads me to think that what I would like in PTE is not "auto-save", actually, but some form of automatic version control that includes mid-session versions as well as start-/end-session versions....

In my view, "auto-save" must not necessarily mean that the action of saving the project files avoids any kind of versioning. In the context of by proposal from above (keeping several project files in the system, using round-robin replacement) auto-save has to be interpreted in a more general sense. Otherwise this proposal would be nothing else but useless!

Regards,

Xaver

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

So you would just say "NO" and "NO" again.

You've obviously never encountered the "Out of memory" condition in a heavy edit session. When it happens, all you want to do is tell PTE - shutdown as quick as you can, don't overwrite the existing file. And then, ideally, you want to be let back in so you can resume at whatever point PTE took the last backup. So you want PTE to hang on to the interim backups.

Hi Peter

You are right I have never encountered an out of memory situation, then again how many people have. I have a number of shows with over 250 slides and not encountered what you mention.

Is this yet another suggestion to benefit the few??? but jeapordising the many. What causes an out of memory situation? the users eqipment or the software.

Regards Eric

[fh1805]

Is this yet another suggestion to benefit the few???...

If you re-read post#13 and concentrate on the second line, you will see that what I am proposing is an option. If you don't want to take advantage of it you leave it turned off. If it is turned off, PTE will behave as it does today with it turned off.

...What causes an out of memory situation? the users eqipment or the software.

The out of memory condition occured for me when editing a single image with a large number of objects on it and with a significant number of keyframes for each object. The error occurs because PTE is trying to maintain its "Undo" stack of changes. Eventually the stack exceeds the available memory. There is no fault in the software, no fault in the hardware. The only fault lies in the complexity that I, the user, was trying to impose.

...but jeapordising the many...

There are many of us who have no interest in burning DVDs or in creating video for Youtube. Does that mean Igor should never have included the option to do these things? Of course not!

To my way of thinking, the more options PTE has (options that are genuinely useful) the more users it will attract. Right now, the "auto-save" feature prevents the "Out of memory" condition but has severe limitations because it simply overwrites the existing file everytime. I have put forward a proposal for a solution that would provide, as an option, increased usefulness for those users who would like the flexibility of recovering to a previous point in time.

Whether or not this suggestion gets included in a future version of PTE is down to Igor and his team. They have to decide whether the cost of coding, testing and then maintaining into the future is going to be justified by a) the number of existing users that might benefit from it and the potential number of new users that it might attract to the product.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Foremost in my mind & many others I would guess, is the limitations in my current equipment, everytime an additional feature is added to PTE, the more strain it puts on my system. Eventually to keep up with these inovations I will have to up-grade or the quality of what I do with PTE will probably deteriorate. therefore any change to PTE which effects the amount of Ram, Rom, sound, or picture quality my machine has, I would veto.

Yachtsman1