cgbraggjr Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 A while back I asked if anyone had animated flame, as one of our resident geniuses had animated a snow globe. Since then, it occurred to me that the new mask feature might be a key, and I have made a crude first attempt at animating flames.I borrowed one of JPD's gifs from his mask demo, Layer60, which is an image of horizontal black and white stripes. I copied it and stacked the copy on top, making it twice as tall. Then I opened it as a mask and simply made it move from bottom to top.I created a pastiche of an ordinary photo, in this case Wotan and Fricka (WAF), with a photo of fire on top. I copied it with the title "flame-left.jpg". Next, back in Photoshop, I moved the fire photo three nudges to the right with the right arrow key. I then copied that version and named it "flame-right.jpg". Now when the mask moves vertically, it alternately exposes the two jpgs, but the only things that appears to move are the flames, because in the two photos WAF are identical, but the flames are slightly offset. It's not like real flames, but as Magritte said, This Is Not A Fire.I'm sure that the experts with PTE will be able to refine this idea and come up with something spectacular. I've uploaded the ZIP file of this test, but have no clue where it ended up. It's called FlameTest.zip - you can find it at my website too:http://home.att.net/~cgbraggjr/PTE/FlameTest.zipFlameTest.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stardealer Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hi,did just a short rework of your delivered files. Not spectacular, but some improvement I think. Play with opacity of the mask to get the desired effectstrength. I think the rough edges of the original flame are the irritating part. You need to work on the original flame very carefully to get a smooth but good looking flame without the destracting black parts and then animate them. To smoothen the effect you can create a second flame with a little more eliminated edges and use this as the masked animated picture as it can be seen in the reworked example.Regards, FrankFlameTest_rev1.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 seehttp://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ost&p=57310http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ost&p=57573Tom had a bonfire in these 2 showscant say whether his links are live or not at mediafireken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I think you are on the right track, but as Frank pointed out, the black harsh lines are an issue, but these can be solved by using a combination of the "clone" or "rubber stamp" feature of Photoshop and the blur tool to soften the edges.But this is only part of the solution. The second part is that flames would not remain in a fixed location casting fixed shadows, however soft and however slightly moved in a horizontal or ripple effect by the mask. What you need is a minimum of three jpg images, each with the flames of a different shape and in a different position where they cross the subject. There are several ways to approach this. One way would be to sequence these three differing views in and out rapidly with keyframes. You could set them to fade in and out sequenced with opacity control so that one was fadeing out rapidly while the second was fading in at the same rate. Then the second would fade out while the third was fading in. This whole process would be repeated except in a different order so that the movement of the flames on the subjects would be random. Once you have a decent sequence, then you would copy and paste the main images multiple times as slides to minimize RAM overhead. In each object set you would be running the same mask effect you are using. The difference would be that the shadows and flames would be constantly changing where they cross the subject. Using three would be a big improvement, but using six or so would be a major improvement. It's a lot of work to get this effect but it would be possible. It's just that by doing it this way you would have to create new images each time you create another show.The other way would be to try to create a gradient mask which would allow you to use the flame sequence on numerous images. The mask would have to be shaped very much like the flames with only enough room for the horizontal movement of the flames. It could get complicated....Best regards,Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Beckham Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 If this is being used to help learn the capabilities of PTE, then great, but......................No guys, its tacky and not something that is going to enhance your slide show, in fact it will do the opposite. IMHO of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgbraggjr Posted January 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Barry, you seem to be a tad curmudgeonly about this. You'd better be careful or I'm going to get out those DVDs I got from you and draw mustaches on them. I'll grant that the flames as they exist are unreal and somewhat crude. OTOH, even that might work for a specific purpose. In my case I am trying to imitate stage flames which are themselves not only artificial, but sometimes extremely and arbitrarily unreal, all in the service of the higher arts . I mean, when they cook on stage you have a red light and a fan blowing tethered paper up in the air (if you have a big budget....).If I wanted realistic and beautiful moving fire, then I wouldn't even try to do it in PTE. I wouldn't even try to do it in animated video - only a cinematic video would do, and even then, it's a 2-dimensional image blah blah blah.For my purposes, this is an avenue worth pursuing. IMHO, naturally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 I have some ideas about this which may work - give me a couple days and I'll have something up which you can evaluate.Best regards,Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumenLux Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hey, I think this is looking pretty good for what is being sought. Having read Barry's observation before running the pte, I was expecting to see flaming zebras jumping like kangaroos! Such was my vision after reading of black stripes and expecting jerky too. I think before this is done, it will be again a masterful example of the "wide" power of PTE and the creative juices of it's users. Looks like the perfect backdrop for a melodrama! It will probably be playing in Yellowstone by summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Beckham Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 LumenLuxSorry mate, I let my diplomatic mask slip a bit there didn't I. Its just that these sorts of things do nothing for me and I can't be the only one. I am trying hard not to be a traditionalist and turn away from anything new, but the tradition AV is very hard to improve on and you must know me a bit by now.From what I see there are far more important areas AV enthusiasts need to work on before flickering flames and on this occasion I could not help, but say what I thought. OOooops No offense meant at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumenLux Posted January 30, 2009 Report Share Posted January 30, 2009 Certainly no offense. And just for the record, probably my favorite work of yours might be your Yosemite, and certainly not the very well done animation "demos" you've done. It is often just a matter of what we want out of a project. Always good to have your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Some more interesting observations come from experimentation. I learned that PTE 5.6 can sequence frames (images) much faster in Preview mode than in the executable. See my notes here:http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9392In this case, the created MP4 at 1600x1200 is considerably better than the created executable because the executable is dropping many frames. Though I'm not certain this method is any improvement over what you have begun, it's more like what you would see of a video taken of flames. If you want to see the MP4 it's about 60 megabytes and you can download here:http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/mp4/flamesvideo.zipThe zipped PTE file is here:http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/mp4/flamesjan30.zipThe PTE file only has a couple sets of the sequence while the MP4 has 1001 frames. The executable made from the PTE file drops too many frames to be useful. I think that the method you are using could really be put to good use with an animation such as a candle flame. It "may" prove to be the best way to do this for the image you used as a sample "if" it is possible to rework the PNG file to eliminate the static "column" which doesn't move and detracts from the realism. I think it might be easier simply to rework both the jpg and flames to make it realistic, but it would need to have no really large, static columns of fire. If you can link me to the jpg "without" the flames I'll give it a try.Best regards,Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgbraggjr Posted January 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Lin wrote, "If you can link me to the jpg "without" the flames I'll give it a try."Do you mean the one with the guy with an eyepatch? It's not really important - I just chose one at random. But if you want it, I've uploaded a copy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks, that saves me the time of hunting down a suitable image to experiment with. Most of mine are wildlife, landscape oriented, etc.Best regards,Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I put the actual flames animation on Youtube as an experiment using 1600x1200 with double pass and 10,000 bitrate. It looks very much like the actual MP4 which was about 130 meg. Here's a link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8TSSf2_H9M...re=channel_pageUse the "Pause" after starting to let the buffer run ahead at least three inches before watching.I'm still playing with your concept of the mask so haven't put that one up yet for consideration.Best regards,Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yachtsman1 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi LinExcellent work LinRegards Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 YA BETTER GET SOME RIVERS OF SWEAT RUNNING DOWN THEIR FACESor is that a new version of " A COLD HEARTED WOMAN" jackets and hats ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Hi Eric, Ken,Thanks - I'm looking for some really good HD video to extract frames of flames from - something which shows the tops of the "licking" flames and preferably with a black background. I may have to build my own "bonfire" and take my own photos. Actually, the one in the demo is very close to the original flames in the video I extracted frames from to sequence for this test. Here's the video I used to extract frames: Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 check email ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Thanks! I'll let you know how it works out..Lin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lin Evans Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I borrowed your concept for the ending on this one. Still looking for a way to get more dramatic flames but as yet not found one......:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k67RtpsOc8 (youtube link at 1600x1200). Start, let it buffer to the end first then restart for best playback ......Or zipped exe here:http://www.learntomakeslideshows.net/sample/jimmiebond.zipLinA while back I asked if anyone had animated flame, as one of our resident geniuses had animated a snow globe. Since then, it occurred to me that the new mask feature might be a key, and I have made a crude first attempt at animating flames................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susiesdad Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Hi.I have just come across a free set of Photoshop brushes for creating flames. I remebered this thread from sometime back and thought that maybe they would help in creating the effect desired. The address ishttp://www.libertiny.com/brushportfolio/?p=96Hope its of use.Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 ALANSorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.The error returned was:Sorry, the link that brought you to this page seems to be out of date or broken.KEN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susiesdad Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 ALANSorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.The error returned was:Sorry, the link that brought you to this page seems to be out of date or broken.KENI'll try again with this link.http://www.libertiny.com/brushportfolio/?p=96Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yachtsman1 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 ALANSorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.The error returned was:Sorry, the link that brought you to this page seems to be out of date or broken.KENHi KenIf you copy & paste the link into your browser it works, could be PTE doesn't like it Regards Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 thks EricAlan your second linkhttp://www.libertiny.com/brushportfolio/?p=96 worksken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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