Roll your own AV Music

[coopernatural]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anybody in wnsoft land makes their own AV music.

I know I can download free zillions of themed music,to go with whatever,

but I am thinking of having a go at something home made.

Thinking of just making something computer generated with maybe a midi keyboard.

Looking for advice then on software, or how you do it.

Or why I shouldn't do it.

Not sure if I am a musical type,but I remember my mother telling me that when I was

only two years old,I could play all day on the Linoleum.LOL

Davy

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi All,

Just wondering if anybody in wnsoft land makes their own AV music.

I know I can download free zillions of themed music,to go with whatever,

but I am thinking of having a go at something home made.

Thinking of just making something computer generated with maybe a midi keyboard.

Looking for advice then on software, or how you do it.

Or why I shouldn't do it.

Not sure if I am a musical type,but I remember my mother telling me that when I was

only two years old,I could play all day on the Linoleum.LOL

Davy

Hi Davy

I don't know what part of the world you are from, in the UK we have a programme called the Jonathan Ross show. Week before last he had he had an electronic musical instrumet that produced music just by passing your hands between light beams, I think it was called an Air Harp or something similar. I've heard this sort of thing in the past AKA Doctor Who, but this this sounded really professional. I did a search on google but couldn't find it. If you are interested you can view the show on line on the BBC I player.

Yachtsman1

[coopernatural]

Hi Yachtsman,

Im from Northern Ireland,so I still get to see Johnathan Woss when he's on air.

Didn't see the show,though I think I seen a concert of Jean Michel Jarre when he did similar.

I remember seeing,I think it was a russian invented device that produced weird and wonderfull sounds depending

on your position/proximity.

Will check out the BBC I Player.

I can imagine my finished AV though, PTEs being played with the sound off.

Davy

[Ed Overstreet]

Check out the discussion at this thread

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9204

and go to www.abaltat.com for an intriguing (but expensive, $300 US) software that can be used to generate music from an MOV video clip (MOVs can be converted from AVI clips, which PTE generates...).

The Muse 2 software described currently is only available for Macs, but an email from their tech support tells me they are planning to release a Windows version of the software this year some time (month not specified, they just said "in 2009").

Some people replying to my thread above didn't like the idea much, but who cares how the music was created if you and your audience like it and it works with your images? At least you wouldn't be bothered by copyright or licensing restrictions

As a bonus Davy, Abaltat the company that makes the software appears to be Irish, check out the Company info on their website.

[coopernatural]

Check out the discussion at this thread

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9204

and go to www.abaltat.com for an intriguing (but expensive, $300 US) software that can be used to generate music from an MOV video clip (MOVs can be converted from AVI clips, which PTE generates...).

The Muse 2 software described currently is only available for Macs, but an email from their tech support tells me they are planning to release a Windows version of the software this year some time (month not specified, they just said "in 2009").

Some people replying to my thread above didn't like the idea much, but who cares how the music was created if you and your audience like it and it works with your images? At least you wouldn't be bothered by copyright or licensing restrictions

As a bonus Davy, Abaltat the company that makes the software appears to be Irish, check out the Company info on their website.

Hi Ed,

Had a look on Youtube at the Abaltat stuff.

Thinking it's very early days with that one.

Not sure if Howard Shore, Hans Zimmer etc.are going to be losing much sleep.

Also had a read of some of the earlier posts.

I can understand why some don't like the idea,of an all too easy/auto music making

program as it takes away from creativityor sense of achievment.

Is picking out a clip of suitable music somehow more creative?

An interesting thought for the future....You have made up your AV in PTE 16 and you go to play it.

PTE puts up a message.'Are you sure you want to proceed? The music you have chosen isn't quite suitable.

In fact PTE would rate it only 2.6 Points out of a possible 10 Points.Would you prefer for PTE 16 to select something much more suitable? PTE can increase third harmonic distortion to bring down the score to 9.4 Points from the available 10 Points.'

Even putting in a voiceover on an AV is much more work and creative than picking out a music track.

I don't think that trying to do the 'whole thing' as it were is an easy option.

Considering the work,time,and cost it probably dosen't make sense,unless you want to do it.

It dosen't have to include computer generated music at all,could be guitar,piano etc.

It certainly isn't being less creative.

Cheers,

Davy

[davegee]

Eric,

The instrument that you described could have been a THEREMIN.

MIDI music can be generated in two ways:

Firstly by playing a piece on a MIDI keyboard or MIDI equipped guitar into a MIDI recording device which requires musical talent,

or alternatively by entering notes one at a time into the recorder using a MIDI keyboard or guitar.

Musical knowledge of timing and intervals is essential but given experience it is possible to come up with some good results.

The first method can sound amateurish depending on your musical talent and the second USUALLY sounds very mechanical until you have practised MIDI for quite a long time.

If you have time - then it is a great way to relax.

DaveG

[Ken Cox]

see

http://www.pgmusic.com/bandbox.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

http://www.google.ca/search?source=ig&...&meta=lr%3D

you must remember that midi music has to be converted to mp3 etc before you can play in a dvd player

ken

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

The instrument that you described could have been a THEREMIN.

Hi Dave

Had a quick look at your Theremin and it looks very basic. The bit of kit Ross had looked like something out of star trek. You played it using both hands with one hand for the rythm and the other for the melody.

Incidentally I was looking for an instrument when I saw the programme, I used to play clarinet & saxophone in an amatuer dance band in my miss-spent youth, I was asked to resign for lolling around on the band stand

So at the time of the Ross programme I was torn between another tenor sax or a banjo, I've now bought a sax, collect it tomorrow.

Regards Eric

[davegee]

Thank the Lord for small mercies.

I don't want to upset any Banjo players but I can only think of one thing that's worse - a violin in the hands of a raw beginner.

Now Stephane Grappelli - that's a different matter.

DaveG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Thank the Lord for small mercies.

I don't want to upset any Banjo players but I can only think of one thing that's worse - a violin in the hands of a raw beginner.

Now Stephane Grappelli - that's a different matter.

DaveG

Phillistine, just listten to Duelling Banjos fro Deliverance

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_dmusic...p;x=18&y=15

click the arrow to the right of the title.

Regards Eric

[davegee]

No need!!

I have Howard Alden's banjo CD - that's virtuosity - but I still can't listen to more than one track at a time!!

DaveG

[bjc]

I thought I’d just pop my head around the corner on this one.

Can you make your own music on a PC ?

Well,,, yes you can ~~ very much so ~~ even if (like me), you can’t play a musical instrument to save your life.

The product you require (for non-musicians) is called ‘Acid Music’ (now owned by Sony). The software comes in three flavours ~ Acid XPress (currently re-named ‘American Idol Extreme Music Creator’ – how naff is that !?) ~ Acid Music Studio ~ and Acid Pro 7. Priced at £29 / £45 / £245. Link: http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/products/acidfamily.aspLink to Acid Music

In addition to the above software you require ‘loops’ ~ ‘loops’ are what you create your music with. ‘Loops’ are snippets of real recorded musical instruments ~ ranging from 4-beats / 8-beats / 16-beats / right up to longer musical snippets.

You get some loops included in with the software ~ more with the more expensive software. You can also download, free of charge, ‘8-packs’, which are released each week (?) which provide you with additional loops that you can add to your loop library. Link: http://www.acidplanet.com/downloads/8packs/Link to 8-packs

Needless to say, you can also buy loops ~ which come in a whole range of musical styles, from Orchestral to Hip-Hop etc. But they’re not cheap. Buy downloading the free ‘8-packs’ you can, over time, build up a substantial library with which to create your own music. I currently have over 50GB of loops in my own personal library ~ although I have now given up on creating my own music ~ that said, I had immense fun doing so whilst I was actively ‘composing’. If you can’t play a musical instrument at all, then you will find this process incredibly satisfying and enjoyable ~ although I cannot guarantee that others will enjoy(?) your ‘music’ quite as much as you will !?

The process is easy ~ if you fancy having a go then I can highly recommend it ~ although, much like AV, it can take over your life if you’re not very careful.

If you fancy having a listen to a few of the tracks that I put together some time ago using Acid Music, here is a link: (5MB) http://www.bjc100.co.uk/PTE/MusicFiles.zipLink to music files

I cannot promise that you will actually ‘like’ any of these ‘tunes’, but they are representative of what I was enjoying doing when I was creating my own music.

bjc

[coopernatural]

Hi Bjc,

Had a listen to the tracks you made,well done. Must have taken a while to do.

Liked no.5 the best though strangely drawn to No.7 when you play it backwards (not joking).

I will have a look at the software you mention and do a trial download.

Before I forget the Air harp thing on Jonathan Ross is on Youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcdQvOLJoNc

My next AV will be just out in time for PTE 16!

50GIG of loops! Should remind you that I also do a loop backing up service FOC.

Cheers,

Davy

[Almark]

Davy check you email.

[lathompson]

The Acid loops are great for someone that likes to tinker. Good suggestion. There is another great value out there. Take a look at SmartSound products. http://www.smartsound.com/. This is a combination of high class musical pieces with software that allows you to change the music to fit the mood. With their most advanced music, you can virtually recreate the tunes. Change tempo, change length and the software makes sure that it sounds totally natural. It appears to be an expensive way to go, but they have many cost saving coupons, giveaways and deals, the bargains are there. For me, a tin-ear type of guy, this is the only way I can create original stuff.

-larry

[coopernatural]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the link.I will have a proper look at it later on.

Just so happens when I went on the site they were having a special

one week only sale!

I downloaded the Sony software suggested by bjc ,to have a try out with it.

Afraid I may not be up to satisfying tin-eared folk.

My creations will be only for those who have their ears Painted on.

Davy

[Barry Beckham]

Have a look at Sony Cinescore, the attached link to a piece of music was created by me with that software.

www.beckhamdigital.co.uk/beckham.zip

I suppose that means I own the copyright

[bjc]

Barrie,

I'd not come across Sony Cinescore before ~ talk about an AV creators dream !? I went and watched all the product tutorial videos on the Sony web site ~ seems to me like there could hardly be anything better than Cinescore for producing a never ending supply of royalty free background music for AV's - on demand. I can only imagine what would be possible if you combined both Acid Music and Cinescore together ~~ wow ~~ the mind boggles !!

Thanks for the info ~ I think I'll get myself a copy of Cinescore a.s.a.p.

bjc

[coopernatural]

BB/Bjc

Haven't had any time to play with the Acid Pro software,but it does use the same 'engine' as the Cinescore which

I hadn't heard of before.

You do pay for the themed music available on Cinescore,but it does quickly let you produce something without

the large learning curve.

The midi does struggle reproducing some sounds,but it could be still quite useful.

Interesting to see if the 2 programs are compatable.Don't see why not,but Sony do like to make things that way.

Thanks for the Links and sound clip.

Davy

[Almark]

Davy check your email again

[lathompson]

Barry, the Cinescore is very much like SmartSound, which I use. Same idea. Start with a basic piece of music in a classification & style, then work it into what you need, both by mood change and precision runtime.

[Barry Beckham]

I did some work with Cinescore for a little while, but I have never heard a piece of music automatically generated that can come close to something produced by a musician and when we start to talk AV, I doubt I would ever use such music.

Generally speaking, computer generated music lacks the charm and appeal that we need in Audio Visual and if every other avenue of music was shut off to me apart from computer generated, I would give up AV altogether. In my view we only have two main componants in AV and quite often the image side of that partnership is not that great. The last thing we should do is start to put lack lustre music to those images.

A recipe for disaster...............

Anyone who does not want to pay £2.50 to use a good bit of music royalty free can buy a license to use music for non profit (If they are PAGB affiliated). That is the way to go, not computer generated.

Before anyone jumps to the defence of computer generated music remember I said " Generally speaking" and if great music of this type is out there I am willing and ready to be corrected.

[lathompson]

That's a unique point of view, Barry. I understand what you are saying, and pretty much agree with you, but there is a vast grey area between regular music and computer generated music. Sony's Acid is one of those alternatives. Actual musical loops, but left to the end user to make magic with them. On their own, they are just loops. In the hands of an artist, they are potentially great. In real life, there are not many good users out there, but there are a few. In life, perhaps 1 out of a thousand can make really good use of a loop program, but it can be done. Smartsound is a similar alternative, but uses complete musical scores, produced by actual musicians, and once done, someone takes a computer and breaks all the music into many smaller bits. Each instrument is recorded separately and you have the ability to change on a whim. Likewise, you may dictate the length of a piece and how it ends. And the tempo too.... the opportunities are vast, the variables are plenty. Easy? Again, great talent, great results. No talent, no results.

So, I agree. Computer generated music is a poor choice. Actual music is best. RF music is 99% crap, but enough time and effort, looking for the right piece, somewhere it exists. Patience is rewarded in the search for the right RF music. And while looking, an inquisitive artist might find solace in one of the programs that allow him to manipulate actual music. Not computer generated, but actual music.

[jfa]

Barry, under you heading "Generally Speaking" I'm in agreement with you on this one.

[deskjet1uk]

The music instrument that Jonathon Ross played is here The beamz