When Starting to create a presentation...

[trailertrash]

I'm keen to learn everything I can on PTE shows and this may well have been asked before, if so please accept my apologies.

When you experienced authors start your sequence of work, I know the images must come first, but then what? Do you have a plan in mind before you begin? Do you [like me right now] open the folder, load some images then think about it? I have just returned from a short holiday and took all my pictuers with PTE in mind, so now I have set about the enhancement of the images in PS and have PTE running and setting the images in as I enhance them. Sound selection, is also playing a part in my creation. Does this sound to fragmented a sequence?

Any advice would be most welcome.

Andrew

[Trailertrash]

[fh1805]

Andrew,

There is no right or wrong way to build a sequence; nor is there a good or bad way to do it. Each of us has our own way of working. I work in many different ways: sometimes it's images first, sometimes music first and sometimes voice-over first - whichever seems most natural for that particular idea.

For a beginner such as yourself, I would suggest there are two basic methods:

- shoot the images then find the music

- be inspired by some music and go and shoot the images

I would also suggest that you spend plenty of time just "playing around" with the order of the images in PTE without doing any work on them in Photoshop. Try and get a really good feel for the flow of the images that you want to achieve. Then find some suitable music and re-work the order and flow of the images to integrate better with the flow of the music. Then, when you feel that really do have this particular slide show "nailed", turn to Photoshop and do your image enhancement. If you turn to Photoshop too soon in the workflow you will end up doing unnecessary work on images which you subsequently reject.

Hope this helps - and good luck with your project.

regards,

Peter

[xahu34]

Andrew,

You may have a look at the following series of articles by Ron Davies: Producing an AV Sequence.

Regards,

Xaver

[JEB]

Hi,

The best advice I've ever received has been KISS (Keep It Short & Simple).

You've probably come back with hundreds of images, every one a masterpiece. Ask yourself how much can my audiance take and then half that.

All the best and enjoy!

Regards

John

P.S. I don't generally follow my own advice!

[Ronniebootwest]

Hi,

The best advice I've ever received has been KISS (Keep It Short & Simple).

You've probably come back with hundreds of images, every one a masterpiece. Ask yourself how much can my audiance take and then half that.

All the best and enjoy!

Regards

John

John, that is excellent advice and should be heeded by everyone (not just beginners).

Ron

[JRR]

Andrew:

Not sure if it is exactly what you are looking for, but I have a workflow for AV posted on our club website.

Ed Overstreet has an other document along the same line.

They are the top two documents found here

You might find some of the other material of use as well.

[trailertrash]

Thank you all for the help and thoughts. I downloaded all the files that you pointed me to JRR, thank you for that.

I've started on my project so have some reading to do. I'll be back with more questions tho.

andrew.

[fh1805]

...I'll be back with more questions tho.

That's what we're here for, Andrew!

regards,

Peter

[Conflow]

Andrew,

I support Peters point of view where he wrote...

"There is no right or wrong way to build a sequence; nor is there a good or bad way to do it.

Each of us has our own way of working. I would suggest there are two basic methods:-

* Shoot the images then find the music

* Be inspired by some music and shoot the Images"...

At the end of the day it really boils down to..."What do you want to achieve with your Show" ?

Then adapt one of the work-flow procedures to exploit your ambition's for that Show.

Tip:- Holiday Photos can be very boring to any audience but if you adopt a 'Theme' which can

be enhanced with Boats, Trains, Planes and Maps it becomes very interesting as it now imparts

knowledge to the viewer which evokes discussion, then you know it hit the target !

Best of luck with it...

Brian (Conflow).

[Guest Yachtsman1]

As a note of encouragement, I started from scratch 12 months last November, most of my early shows I have re-jigged and all now have Audacity sound tracks. I take pictures of what I think would make interesting shows to a varied audience.

This is a list of the shows I have produced:

ESPIC DIGITAL MEDIA.

AV Shows available.

* = new

General Subjects (Suitable for all ages)

1. *Bellerby Open Gardens and Scarecrow competition 2008 9mins..

2. The Churches of St Matthew’s & St John’s Leyburn. 20mins Charity DVD over 40 copies sold

3. The Digital Dales Part 1. 2007 (Views of the Dales) 31mins

4. The Digital Dales Part 2. 2008 (Views of the Dales) 17mins

5. *Fountains Abbey 2008. (Ruins of the Abbey) 2 versions 10 & 16mins

6. Honfluer 2005 Travel Montage “Normandy Interlude” 16mins

7. Maryport & the Lakes April 2008. (Short Lakes break) 10mins

8. *Newcastle 2008. (Wensleydale Camera Club visit.) 7mins

9. St Matthew’s PCC (Visit to St Mary’s Windermere.) 10mins

10. *Thorp Perrow 2008. (Arboretum & Wildlife Park.) 12mins

11. Wensleydale (Agricultural Show 2007.)

(Revised with sound effects) 16mins

12. *Wensleydale Railway 1940’s War Period Re-enactment.(Aug 08)

Nostalgia by the bucket full. 16mins

13. Autumn Dales Diary 2008. Autumn colours, sound effects etc.

Two versions 7 mins & 12mins

14. *Wensleydale Trinity. St Oswald’s, St Michael’s,& St Andrew’s,

Featuring musical performances by local groups. 31mins This was a charity DVD 50 copies sold

15. *“Fog on the Tyne”. One & Two day June/December visits 2008.

Sound effects, traditional music, voice over. 2 versions 7mins & 10mins

16. *“A Whiff Of Steam” Darlington Railway Museum. 2x versions 6.5 & 15mins with voice over.

17. * “Monochrome Hawes”, Black & White Pictures by night. 7mins with voice over

18. * “Springtime Dales 2009” (in Production) with voice over

19. * “”Inside Ripon Cathedral”. 13mins.

20. *The History of Dont want my idea pinched . (In Production) 12.5min with voice over.

21. *Cross Border Interlude. Lindisfarne & Eyemouth. 9 min

Sailing Orientated Shows. (You need to like sailing!)

29. Corsica to the Costas Part 1. (Mainly Sailing content) 55mins.

30. Corsica to the Costas Part 2. (Mainly Sailing content) 25mins

31Homeward Bound Part 1. (Mainly Sailing content) 38mins

32Homeward Bound Part 2 “Final Voyage” (Mainly Sailing content) 21mins

33Twelve Months in Spain. (Family and friends, parties, bullfight) 39mins

35 Sailing the Med’. (Lecture with commentary Corsica to Barcelona.) You need to like sailing for this one. 30mins

36 Corsica to Toulon. With Voice Over. (Sailing the Med’) 27mins

Toulon to Barcelona. With Voice-Over (Sailing the Med’) 25mins

38 Barcelona to Aguadulce With Voice-Over (Sailing the Med’)

Yachtsman1

[fh1805]

Eric,

My personal reaction to those details is that all your sequences seem to me to be on the long side. For comparison: I have 30 sequences that I currently offer (in various combinations) to local audiences - 15 of these are under 5 minutes duration, 12 are in the range 5-10 minutes duration and 3 are in the range 10-16 minutes.

In my opinion, based upon experience gained from attending many AV days, festivals and competitions in northern England over the last three-four years, the longer the AV sequence duration, the harder it is to maintain audience interest.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Eric,

My personal reaction to those details is that all your sequences seem to me to be on the long side. For comparison: I have 30 sequences that I currently offer (in various combinations) to local audiences - 15 of these are under 5 minutes duration, 12 are in the range 5-10 minutes duration and 3 are in the range 10-16 minutes.

In my opinion, based upon experience gained from attending many AV days, festivals and competitions in northern England over the last three-four years, the longer the AV sequence duration, the harder it is to maintain audience interest.

regards,

Peter

Peter

I think you would agree that the majority of your audiences are camera club oriented, mine aren't. I also remember vividly your presentation in 2007 at our club that set me on the AV trail, the sequences you showed were well over 5 minutes, in fact we had a conversation where I asked a question about file sizes.!!! The shows listed start when I was learning.

I also remember your sequence at last Novembers RPS open day where comments about the timing were made on the sequence you showed. The sequences your are referring to are probably the sailing shows which have never been seen outside my circle of friends or relations. It would be a sad day if we all followed the same path. As you know I have been helping an old time AV'r to convert his conventional shows to digital (93 years of age), average show length 1 hour, average number of images 300, he thinks his are blooming marvelous.

Regards Eric

[fh1805]

Peter

I think you would agree that the majority of your audiences are camera club oriented...

Nothing could be further from the truth! Since January 2007 I have fulfilled 42 bookings. The break-down is as follows: 8 sessions of Judging at camera clubs, 9 "lectures" at camera clubs (of which 4 were demonstration nights and not AV viewing nights) and 25 to non-camera-club bodies. My sequences are built for a general audience - but, I hope, of a quality that will satisfy a Camera Club or AV Group.

...I also remember vividly your presentation in 2007 at our club that set me on the AV trail, the sequences you showed were well over 5 minutes, in fact we had a conversation where I asked a question about file sizes...

I'm pleased you have such vivid memories and that your experience that night has had such a beneficial outcome. The programme that night was "Heritage of the North" which was a converted Slide-tape sequence that ran for around 45 minutes. But in reality it was simply twelve short sequences that ran one after the other. So the average duration of the sequences was 3m 45s.

It would be a sad day if we all followed the same path.

Indeed, it would! But this thread was started by Andrew (Trailertrash), who has openly admitted elsewhere on the forum that he is inexperienced in digital AV. I felt it was necessary to make it clear that such long sequences as yours should not be seen as the "norm". In fact they are undesirably long for a beginner. Andrew needs to develop his skills by building short duration sequences. That way he will learn to "tell his story" in a crisp, punchy manner. When he has mastered the techniques of digital AV on the shorter sequences, he will then be in a position to tackle something longer.

regards,

Peter

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Forgot to add to this the RPS AV group guidelines regarding length of sequence for submission when applying for their distinction qualification is 6-9 minutes & not lest that 40 images. The link to the RPS AV group is http://www.avg.rps.org/Distinctions.htm For none UK residents who aren't aware, the RPS (Royal Photograpic Society) is the official body dictating things photographic in our country. Hopefully I have up-loaded their guidance booklet, and hasten to add I am not a member, their fees are beyond my resources.

Yachtsman1

RPS_DisCrit_Design_A5_spread_v25.pdf

[Maureen]

Hi Eric

My very first AV was 45 minutes long = 100 years history of our village.

I couldn't cram 100years into less than 45 minutes!

The local audience loved it but I have never shown it outside our village.

Since then I've been following the KISS method but all I find are little frogs and toads never the handsome prince

Correction about your reference to the RPS Distinctions........

You are refering to the recommendations for

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE ROYAL PHOTOGRAPHIC SOCIETY LICENTIATE DISTINCTION IN PHOTO HARMONY

The RPS differentiates between AV sequences and Photo Harmony sequences for their distinctions

AV Distinction applications must have a total of

one or more Sequences of a total of not less than ten minutes

for the Licentiateship.

Next RPS Distinctions Panel meeting will be on October 3rd in Bath. contact Andy Moore , at RPS Bath

andy@rps.org or Robert Albright FRPS robert@robertalbright.co.uk if you are interested.

Good to get a plug from a non-member Eric. The RPS meetings are all open to non-members too folks

Check out their website and see if there are meetings near you if you wish to attend.

I think the most important point here is helping newcomers to get started and giving as much good sensible advice as possible.

Andrew has come to a good source of info and hopefully will find lots of pointers he can follow.

I know the images must come first

... not always the case Andrew in fact the more you progress the less this is true.

My advice is always create your work for yourself and be happy with what you are producing.

Guidelines are there to help but never treat them as tram lines,

don't be afraid to try new things.

Listen to advice but keep a clear head about what you want to achieve.

Judges don't always get it right but it is good to hear the views of others.

Above all, go ahead, create and have fun doing so !

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Sorry for the mis-quote Maureen, I thought I had read 10 minutes on a previous visit to the site, but rushed it when re-checking and read the wrong figures. Which confirms that sequences of 10 minutes or 10 minutes plus are not out of the ordinary in RPS parlance. Whenever I watch what I think is an exceptional show, the time goes by so quickly, you don't want it to finish. Maybe it's an age thing

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[Maureen]

No problem Eric

A ten minute show can feel like a few moments when it is exceptionally good

or a two minute show can feel like a lifetime when it is exceptionally bad

At the end of the day it is not the length of your work that matters but the quality

Enjoy