potwnc Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Mike,Do you intend for your post to be applicable only to .exe output or are you saying this is all also true of video output - where there would be, for example, an MPEG2 file (.vob) burned to a standard DVD and played back on a set-top DVD player connected to a TV (analog or digital) - no PC or computer monitor anywhere to be found? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeL117 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 @potwncIt has been a while since I played with video colour and have so far managed to stay far enough away from the multitude of HD formats but I think you will find that unless you are working with cinema size and quality, video is also optimised for sRGB. I am ready to be proven wrong, particularly on the more recent formats but when I did work in video I always converted any still formats to sRGB before incorporating within the video. Also since most internet streamed video and TVs are set to approximate sRGB then that adds credence to my thoughts.Video tends to be more forgiving of a lot of things with the very high compression particularly of the colour information but you do need to be more aware of final sharpening if it is going to be used in interlace mode (as most standard DVDs and all older TVs are). You may even have to apply some final blur for some images with a lot of fine detail to prevent flicker.I suppose I could have simply said yes @davegeeYes, for 99% or more of images it will make no perceptible difference to the end result whatever the order is - unless you try and compare your final with your original at the pixel level.Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbskels Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 @mbskelsIt has been stated many times (and by Igor himself) that PTE is NOT colour aware/managed. MikeMikeI was not aware that the software developers had ever made comment on how PTE handles tagged/untagged images. I am aware that the question was specifically raised on this forum a few months back but no answer was given.I would be grateful if you could supply a link to any statement from the software development team on this subject. I have just tried the forum search facility with no luck. ThanksMalcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeL117 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 @mbskelsThis is a discussion on the topic of incorporating colour management into PTE version 5:http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ic=4438&hl=I have, in the past, seen a few other similar posts, not always easy to track down in such a large forum. I do not remember any discussion that pointed to a change in this situation and my experience with PTE indicate to me that the situation is still the same.If I have missed the relevant post I would appreciate if someone would point me at the switch to enable this as my version does not take any not of any attached profiles. I have attached quick and dirty PTE exe to illustrateMike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 We can add support of extended RGB JPEG images with embedded color profile. The code is ready, but processing of such image almost doubles time of loading when you watch slideshow. At final stage we still have to operate with sRGB image intended for displays and projectors. Probably better to use graphical editor for such converting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Overstreet Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 We can add support of extended RGB JPEG images with embedded color profile. The code is ready, but processing of such image almost doubles time of loading when you watch slideshow. At final stage we still have to operate with sRGB image intended for displays and projectors. Probably better to use graphical editor for such converting?My vote would be for the last option (using graphical editor for such conversions) in preference to doubling the loading time for the show. No question in my mind on that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potwnc Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 We can add support of extended RGB JPEG images with embedded color profile. The code is ready, but processing of such image almost doubles time of loading when you watch slideshow. At final stage we still have to operate with sRGB image intended for displays and projectors. Probably better to use graphical editor for such converting?Igor, (and everyone else),I don't understand what you are saying. How does this apply to video output? If I burn a DVD the DVD player doesn't load images in the way a .exe does, so why would it take double the time to play a video file? If you mean that it would take double the time to render that file that is not an issue (for me at least).Are you saying that, if my images have an embedded color profile of PAL/SECAM (or NTSC), and I use PTE to create video, the color profile of the created frames in the video output file will get converted to sRGB by PTE? If the answer is: "yes, but only if you use the PTE codec or VideoBuilder" I can live with that. If the answer is: "yes using any codec" this means PTE is a very bad product for video output.Can you please let us know how PTE manages color for video output?Thanks,Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 We can add support of extended RGB JPEG images with embedded color profile. The code is ready, but processing of such image almost doubles time of loading when you watch slideshow...Igor,Did you ever think about preprocessing?Regards,Xaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potwnc Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 There are some interesting comments on the thread that Mike linked to:"it is a bit unfair to ask Igor to have to build in a complex colour profile conversion engine to work in realtime and at high res & refresh rates."I don't think anyone in this thread is asking for PTE to convert images to any color profile - sRGB or any other."colour conversions need to undergo at least two transformations - from the original to an "neutral" intermediate, and then from the intermediate to the target colour space."Again, nobody seems (to me) to be asking for any color profile conversion within PTE.Maybe I've missed the point of what everyone else is saying on this thread (always possible :-)), but don't we all want PTE to simply preserve the original color profile of our images? If my (or your) image is sRGB because I created it that way don't we want PTE to leave the color space alone just as much as we do if my (or your) image has some other embedded color profile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Yachtsman1 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 I think the "Load Images" remark refers to moving from one image to the next in line in the show?Yachtsman1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Ray,Yes, I spoke about realtime conversion when we create EXE file and then watch this slideshow. EXE file contains JPEG images with color profiles and conversion to sRGB have a place before output to display/projector. As I wrote it doubles time of loading of images - so I don't know should we add such realtime conversion or not.Concerning video output.DirectX (Direct3D) can operates only with sRGB color space (without color profiles). For this reason we load images in sRGB format to video card and then receive sRGB final picture. This picture will be sent in sRGB format if you use virtual PTE Video codec in AVI. Or converted to YUV color space by PicturesToExe if you choose DVD/MP4/Youtube/Vimeo output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbskels Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 @mbskelsThis is a discussion on the topic of incorporating colour management into PTE version 5:http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index....ic=4438&hl=MikeMike,Many thanks for the link. I must have missed that discussion and clearly I have some way to go in learning how to use the forum search facility!Personally I have no problem with PTE ignoring embedded profiles if there is a downside (delay in processing image) as described by admin1. My concern was purely to understand what PTE did with tagged/untagged images so that I could be sure I was using an optimal workflow. I work in aRGB from camera to print as I work with artists - as you can imagine they are somewhat picky about colours and of course have the original to compare the prints with!I have no problem in converting to sRGB for display in PTE as I do this routinely for output to the web. I believe PS SFW facility has had the option to convert to sRGB since about PS6 but it was not set as the default. You had to set that option (tick box) when using the SFW process. CS4 SFW default is to convert to sRGB and strip the profile. Presumably that change in default settings reflects the increasing adoption of sRGB for browser/monitor display.While full colour management in PTE would be a "nice to have" feature perhaps not if it has a significant adverse effect on image processing performance. I am grateful to you/admin1 for clarifying this issue for me and I will amend my PTE workflow accordingly.Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 Wouldn't it make sense to offer the creation of Exe-files with color space options: - The user may decide if the source space should be interpreted or not.- The user may chose a destination space for the images to be stored inside the Exe-File.Furthermore: Why not having an optional automatic resizing function for Exe creation, e.g. for shows having "Fixed size of slide (in pixels)"?Regards,Xaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeL117 Posted May 13, 2009 Report Share Posted May 13, 2009 We can add support of extended RGB JPEG images with embedded color profile. The code is ready, but processing of such image almost doubles time of loading when you watch slideshow. At final stage we still have to operate with sRGB image intended for displays and projectors. Probably better to use graphical editor for such converting?I think that few of us would want the extra overhead for showing an AV (I often exceed the limits of PTE already). There are some uses of PTE that would benefit from support for other profiles and not have a problem with longer load times. In photographic club competitions (although there is now some excellent software available for running most club competitions) and on-the-fly appraisals (PTE is much more slick and as quick (two key strokes) at presenting work than most other solutions). These applications need to work with images supplied from many sources and not all the authors have mastered the art of converting and correcting their images manually.@IgorAs the code is already done perhaps you would consider including it in the next version with a simple tick box to enable it (default off). That would be really nice Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronniebootwest Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Well put Mike!I have been doing things in a rather different order regarding your last 5 out 6 points but it might be worth experimenting with a change of order.Your point about Luminosity is also relevent as I am seeing a consistent change in luminosity when using SFW between original and output (lighter).I will continue to use my little action to change from 16 bit to 8 bit, flatten the image and change from RGB to sRGB before "saving as" but with caution.DaveGHi Dave,I have just been re-reading through this thread and notice that you use an 'Action' to change from 16 bit/RGB to sRGB. If you are still using this action, is it possible to email me a copy please.Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyKay Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 This is distantly related solution to a hair-tearing problem I kept encountering:Lightroom color match problem with Photoshop CS4 Extended: Edit | Color settings | Conversion Options | Compensate for scene referred profiles Uncheck this setting Default may be "on" but gamma does not match Lightroom - this setting is for video matching in InDesign I think (??) this also affected my jpg output.Hope this helps someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegee Posted July 13, 2010 Report Share Posted July 13, 2010 Creating Actions:DGActions.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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